Low-Maintenance Setup For Idiots with Regular Frogs?

[Plettschner]

Most of what I've been reading on here seems to be geared toward making a miniature functioning ecosystem for exotic frogs, which is great, but not practical for everyone. I've been contemplating the feasibility of a low-maintenance setup that would still provide a suitable environment for my Green Frogs.

Right now I have a horribly ugly, yet somewhat functional setup: a 30g (thanks Deranged Chipmunk for correcting) 36x18x12 tank with a plastic tub for a pond, coco fiber with some river rocks under/mixed in for the land, Tetra i10 filter, piece of driftwood sticking into water, reptile bridge partially in water, some plastic plants, a couple of rock/caves (1 in water). The frogs keep tracking the coco fiber into the water which keeps clogging up the filter, the poop is a pain to find and clean up on the substrate, cleaning the coco fiber and poop out of the pond is difficult (gravel vacuums are a joke for this).

I'm planning on going to a half and half tank but also looking to make things work a bit better and/or easier. I believe a water area with a rocky bottom and a filter with a protected intake, possibly along with a different substrate would take care of a lot of my issue.

Some thoughts on reduced maintenance/care:
- Substrate configuration that doesn't need to be replaced every month or so
- Substrate the frogs can eat off of
- Filter setup that prevents clogging (type or location in tank)
- Water system to minimize partial changes
- Artificial plants (I have a brown thumb)
- Some kind of poop sucker to simplify cleanup

It would be great if the "frog masters" here could put a thread together on this.

Honestly, the whole thing is aggravating me... even though I love frogs, I can't help thinking that maybe they are just not for me. Then again, I could just be making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Bombina Bob]

I understand your vivarium plea! I always want a system that will sustain itself
over a long while as well, for semi aquatic setups its relatively easy

- a basic gravel slope in the tank with a water dept of 3-4 inches will be good for Leopard frogs, Large stones or pieces of bark can be
used to hold back the land portion of the gravel, substrate divider followed by an inch of cocoanut fiber is best for minimal impaction risks

- Because you have Ranid frogs, a simple canister filter can be used (the filter is usually outside of the tank with a couple small tubes wired inside the tank)
I would reccomend a filter rated for double the amount of water in the tank, Marineland and zoo med make great filters. If you cannot afford these options,
A siphon hose can be used to suck the frog poop and dirty water out, however this should be done twice a week if there is no filter

- Although you mentioned that artificial plants are your best option, try out Pothos and Wandering Jew clippings, these are plants with minimal
requirements and will thrive in a paludarium setup with very little to almost no light. Not only do they look pretty but they will also keep the
gravel back and the frog waste will help them grow

- If you want minimum water changes, i would stick with the canister filters

Hope this helps

[s6t6nic6l]

hi. if you have a couple of minutes to spare please read the notes on this build project which may help with some of your issues and ideas for your toads enclosure.

Fire Belly Toad Terrarium Project 1 Photos by s6t6nic6l | Photobucket

the background is of no relevance here but the terrestrial part of the build should be of some interest.

would a 6" deep divider with a 60/40 water/land ratio be ideal for your toads

it is really worth putting some effort/time/dollars into your build which would help with keeping maintenance to a minimum.

I will tell you that the land area of this setup never got touched(cleaned) once due to the reasons that will be explained if read carefully through the project.

good luck with yours

[flybyferns]

Most of what I've been reading on here seems to be geared toward making a miniature functioning ecosystem for exotic frogs, which is great, but not practical for everyone. I've been contemplating the feasibility of a low-maintenance setup that would still provide a suitable environment for my Green Frogs.

Right now I have a horribly ugly, yet somewhat functional setup: a 30g (thanks Deranged Chipmunk for correcting) 36x18x12 tank with a plastic tub for a pond, coco fiber with some river rocks under/mixed in for the land, Tetra i10 filter, piece of driftwood sticking into water, reptile bridge partially in water, some plastic plants, a couple of rock/caves (1 in water). The frogs keep tracking the coco fiber into the water which keeps clogging up the filter, the poop is a pain to find and clean up on the substrate, cleaning the coco fiber and poop out of the pond is difficult (gravel vacuums are a joke for this).

I'm planning on going to a half and half tank but also looking to make things work a bit better and/or easier. I believe a water area with a rocky bottom and a filter with a protected intake, possibly along with a different substrate would take care of a lot of my issue.

Some thoughts on reduced maintenance/care:
- Substrate configuration that doesn't need to be replaced every month or so
- Substrate the frogs can eat off of
- Filter setup that prevents clogging (type or location in tank)
- Water system to minimize partial changes
- Artificial plants (I have a brown thumb)
- Some kind of poop sucker to simplify cleanup

It would be great if the "frog masters" here could put a thread together on this.

Honestly, the whole thing is aggravating me... even though I love frogs, I can't help thinking that maybe they are just not for me. Then again, I could just be making a mountain out of a molehill.

For Plettschner
What species of green frogs do you have?

I had to ponder a bit before I started typing a reply.

I'll use Fire Belly Toads and those "hard to care for Dart Frogs " as examples.

This is a good discussion topic.
An interesting spin on whats difficult; and does that = exotic?
Does exotic = "frog master"
Does "regular" = cheap $$
Does exotic = expensive

Hate to break the news.....
- some of the "regular frogs" are actually difficult to keep and/or quite high maintenance
( ie Fire Belly Toads high maintenance ( IMO) -- thought to be "easy" because they are not expensive )
( ie Red Eye Tree Frogs - high maintenance AND difficult to keep )
- some the exotics ( ie dart frogs ) are easy to keep

It's all upside-down

Sounds to me you are describing dart frog care
-substrate lasts for an indefinite amount of time
-frogs have to eat off the substrate
-there's NO filter to get clogged
-there are no water changes -- ever
- there are lots of plants that are very easy to grow --- even for a "brown thumb"
-and to poop fertilizes the plants --- so you just leave it ( except for taking it off the glass because it looks ugly)

A 5.00 fire belly toad is just as difficult and just as big a responsibility to keep as a 100.00 dart frog.
Just because we see 30 FBT ( all mushed together ) at a big box pet joint doesn't make them easy to keep --- means they are simply readily available.

It's all about what set of care needs one might find more or less..........well annoying
A "miniature functioning ecosystem" is exactly that ~~~ functioning~~~ pretty much... on its own

I have simplified it a bit , hopefully you get the idea

Keep it coming

One more BIG thing:
If you are replacing substrate when it is suppose to be replaced, being careful to use a safe substrate for the frog species you keep,
cleaning the filter, doing your water changes, cleaning your plastic plant because you have a "Brown Thumb", and trying to invent a new frog pooper scooper ......Well congratulations ....you are taking GOOD care of your frog And, Welcome to Frog Forum

[LLLReptile]

For Plettschner
What species of green frogs do you have?

I had to ponder a bit before I started typing a reply.

I'll use Fire Belly Toads and those "hard to care for Dart Frogs " as examples.

This is a good discussion topic.
An interesting spin on whats difficult; and does that = exotic?
Does exotic = "frog master"
Does "regular" = cheap $$
Does exotic = expensive

Hate to break the news.....
- some of the "regular frogs" are actually difficult to keep and/or quite high maintenance
( ie Fire Belly Toads high maintenance ( IMO) -- thought to be "easy" because they are not expensive )
( ie Red Eye Tree Frogs - high maintenance AND difficult to keep )
- some the exotics ( ie dart frogs ) are easy to keep

It's all upside-down

Sounds to me you are describing dart frog care
-substrate lasts for an indefinite amount of time
-frogs have to eat off the substrate
-there's NO filter to get clogged
-there are no water changes -- ever
- there are lots of plants that are very easy to grow --- even for a "brown thumb"
-and to poop fertilizes the plants --- so you just leave it ( except for taking it off the glass because it looks ugly)

A 5.00 fire belly toad is just as difficult and just as big a responsibility to keep as a 100.00 dart frog.
Just because we see 30 FBT ( all mushed together ) at a big box pet joint doesn't make them easy to keep --- means they are simply readily available.

It's all about what set of care needs one might find more or less..........well annoying
A "miniature functioning ecosystem" is exactly that ~~~ functioning~~~ pretty much... on its own

I have simplified it a bit , hopefully you get the idea

Keep it coming

One more BIG thing:
If you are replacing substrate when it is suppose to be replaced, being careful to use a safe substrate for the frog species you keep,
cleaning the filter, doing your water changes, cleaning your plastic plant because you have a "Brown Thumb", and trying to invent a new frog pooper scooper ......Well congratulations ....you are taking GOOD care of your frog And, Welcome to Frog Forum

Lynn put it very eloquently - basically, vivariums look complicated but in reality, they are the absolute easiest way to care for the majority of frogs. They are so easy, in fact, that even as a business trying to maintain dozens (over 100 now) of frogs, we STILL set up vivarium for our groups. Myself, I find them so easy that I set up my snakes, frogs, skinks, all in living vivariums. No water changes, no substrate changes, just glass cleaning, plant pruning, and watering!

What you described with the pumps and filters etc sounds like a lot of work for the green frog (green tree frog?) that I was thinking of - they are simple tree frogs that do well in an enclosure with live plants, which is easy enough to setup and really not that expensive if you already have lights/cage. Less than $50 usually for substrate, plants, hydroton, filter mesh, and maybe a water bowl or sticks.

-Jen

[Mentat]

Pay attention to what Lynn said in post no. 4 ! Also; are we discussing the American Green Tree Frog?

[Plettschner]

They (2) are regular green frogs, aka, Lithobates clamitans. Most likely the Northern variety.

I certainly do not mind spending the time or some money to setup the vivarium... it's the low-maintenance aspect I'm going for. I'm all for spending a little more now to enjoy a lot more later. If I have to use live plants, then that is OK. I was throwing ideas out... remember, I'm an idiot!

I want to clarify what may have come across wrong... this was not about what is costly or what is required care levels for different types of frogs... the forums here themselves seem very geared toward the more exotic. I was feeling that a lot of what I am reading may not apply to my "lowly rana". I really don't know what a FBT costs... I figured they were popular because they are cool looking.

Anyway... wow, a lot of good information and a lot of "comforting" information. I do want to go with the split tank for certain. I don't mind using a filter if needed, along with plants that are hard to kill.

A canister filter sounds like a plan (if I need one). I actually think the frogs are not fond of the internal filter. I turn it off at night sometimes and I notice the water area clears out when I turn it on in the morning... could just be that they don't like me though.

I saw somewhere that a short false bottom was used under the land area instead of the clay balls... it seems like this would make for easier siphoning out of the mucky water that gets down there. Which leads me to, how does the land area get watered? Spray it down? Misting? Make it rain in there?

[Bombina Bob]

Lol, I don't know what I was saying when I mentioned leopard frogs, i probably saw your avatar and confused it with the thread. Living Vivariums and plaudariums can be very
low matinence when you have something as small as dart frogs but green frogs may need a little more attention, I certainly would love to work with Green frogs, around in my
area they are considered "exotic"! Usually frogs and the costs of maintaining frogs may vary depending on the species depending on food, electric bill, and vet bills.

- For another possibility of a false bottom, Plastic egg crate can be used and cut to the footprint of the tank's land portion and supported
by PVC pipes facing vertically (be sure to cut small notches in the PVC so stagnant water doesn't build up)

- After this has been made, the water can flow underneath and can be siphoned out. After that has been made, a piece of glass or tree fern
panel can be siliconed into place to form the land area. The land area of the tank may get soaked from the frogs or the water will seep into
the land section. You can also water the plants with a spray bottle with dechlorinated water.

[Plettschner]

Leopard Frogs... Green Frogs... close enough I suppose!

So, on with this Low-Maintenance Idiot Build for Ranidae...


Lets start with the basics of the tank. 36"Lx18"Wx12"H tank, half aquatic, half terrestrial:
- Is that tank suitable? It's what I have, but doesn't mean it is what I have to use.
- Divided tank with a glass or plastic separator siliconed in seems like the best idea, yes?
- Would a cling on forest background on 3 sides be acceptable for this first major overhaul (stop laughing)?
- Marineland hidden LED light (already have this too) Amazon.com : Marineland Hidden LED Strip Light, White and Blue, 21-Inch : Pet Supplies
- What am I missing/forgetting/doing wrong?

[Bombina Bob]

So far the tank is around 33 gallons, this will do for one green frog, A 55 gallon in my opinion would be the best for a pair.
If you want the lowest maintenance for your frog setup, the glass divider is the way to go, Before you fill the land portion, be sure
to test it by filling the water section, Don't want any leaks! As long as the backround for the frogs is covering 3 sides it should be
fine, Dont worry! i had a forest background for my first bullfrog . The marineland LED light is good, be sure that the tank stays
around 60-75F, For this you will need a thermometer, (Be sure not to get the cheap clock-like ones, those can be very inaccurate.)
I think the only thing you may need would be an area for the frog to hide.

[Plettschner]

Anyone else care to comment?