Phrynomantis bifasciatus Toxicity

[Bunnygirl]

Hello,
I have a 46 gallon bow front tank setup for frogs. I currently have a Green Tree frog in it. Yoday at petco I bought a Phrynomantis bifasciatus, also known as the west african rubber frog and many other names. It was mislabeled at petco (of course) and I just found out that it is toxic, my question. Will it hurt my other frogs or is it just tocix to people, and how toxic is it? Is it okay to keep it with my green tree frog. I really dont have another tank to setup right now. I could throw it in a 10 gal i guess

[SethD]

Keep it separate from other species. These guys are one of the more toxic species available in the trade and are not a good candidate for a mixed tank. Generally speaking it isn't advisable to mix species until your sure you know what your doing.

[tgampper]

Will it hurt my other frogs or is it just tocix to people, and how toxic is it?

Hi Bunny

Seth is right, these frogs are very toxic and should be kept separately. Although not necessarily harmful to humans, the skin secretions are known to have cardiotoxins. According to the South African Medical Journal, these toxins will usually enter the body through scratches on your hands or touching your mouth, eyes or nose after handling the frog. Symptoms include painful swellings, difficult breathing, headache, faster heart rate and nausea. These usually last about 4 hours. The best course of action is to use plastic gloves when handling and wash hands thoroughly. Keep frogs away from pets. Remember these simple precautions while you enjoy your beautiful frogs.

Petco should inform the public better. I guess if they do, there wouldn't be many frog and toad sales.

[SethD]

Hi Bunny

Seth is right, these frogs are very toxic and should be kept separately. Although not necessarily harmful to humans, the skin secretions are known to have cardiotoxins. According to the South African Medical Journal, these toxins will usually enter the body through scratches on your hands or touching your mouth, eyes or nose after handling the frog. Symptoms include painful swellings, difficult breathing, headache, faster heart rate and nausea. These usually last about 4 hours. The best course of action is to use plastic gloves when handling and wash hands thoroughly. Keep frogs away from pets. Remember these simple precautions while you enjoy your beautiful frogs.

Petco should inform the public better. I guess if they do, there wouldn't be many frog and toad sales.

I will also say that I once briefly handled a couple specimens that had just gone through shipping(so mildly stressed) and they were one of only a handful of species that has ever made my hand tingle a bit just from handling them even though there were no cuts in my skin. That no longer occurred once they settled down and were no longer as stressed but it does go to show they definitely are not short on toxins.

[tgampper]

I will also say that I once briefly handled a couple specimens that had just gone through shipping(so mildly stressed) and they were one of only a handful of species that has ever made my hand tingle a bit just from handling them even though there were no cuts in my skin. That no longer occurred once they settled down and were no longer as stressed but it does go to show they definitely are not short on toxins.

Good point, Seth. I also read of instances where people have had mild reactions just by coming in contact with the water the frogs were in.However, on the good side, after the frogs have settled in there isn't any reason for them to release the toxins. The reason for the powerful toxin is that they live in the nests of ponerine ants. The skin toxins protect them from being attacked by the ants. Another species of frog, Kassina fusca, also secretes this toxin for the same reason.

[Kurt]

Just want to point out that we do have an article on this species - Red-Banded Rubber Frog.

[Buck Rogers]

The reason for the powerful toxin is that they live in the nests of ponerine ants. The skin toxins protect them from being attacked by the ants.

This I did not know, where did you read this? Generally we find them in leaf litter and under logs and such, but I know they do hibernate in termite mounds.

On another note the species in the wild does live on a diet of ants and termites and the formic acid probably plays a role in the poisonous secretions.

My friend has also felt his skin tingling after handling a large adult, but after having mine for well over a year I have never experienced this. In the early stages I did feed them on termites to get them feeding and only at that point could I feel a sticky substance after handling them, but not in the last 10+ months of never giving them termites.

Bunnygirl - Out of curiosity please could you tell me the size of them and post a pic.

[tgampper]

Hi Buck:

Edit: I wish I would have read the article more carefully. It is P. microps that lives in the nests of ponerine ants, not P. bifasciatus. Very sorry for the error.

One source I found was at the local university.
Journal: Biotropica
Volume/No: 31/1 (1999)
Title: ASSOCIATIONS BETWEEN ANURANS AND ANTS IN A WEST AFRICAN SAVANNA (ANURA : MICROHYLIDAE, HYPEROLIIDAE, AND HYMENOPTERA : FORMICIDAE)
Authors: M.-O. Rodel/U. Braun

The other was an article from the South African Medical Journal.
Link: http://archive.samj.org.za/1998%20VO...A%20Leisew.pdf

[tgampper]

Hi Kurt:

Thanks for the great article on the rubber frog. I have always been fascinated with them.

[Kurt]

You're welcome and thank you. I have both microps and bifasciatus, maybe I will breed them somday.

Thanks to Darren, for clarifying the whole ant nest deal. I thought I had missed something when researching the article. I am relieved that is not the case.

[Buck Rogers]

Something interesting happened to me on Saturday night. I have been trying to get my bandeds to go into hibernation but with little success. So one of the largest females was out on Saturday night and I started stroking her on the back and I felt her skin getting very wet and then my finger started tingling, now I have no idea if this was all in my mind or if this was an actual result of the toxin - this then throws my theory out that they only can create toxins from eating ants.