A sculpture in many stages, My in Progress dart frog Viv...

[Lady]

Building a vivarium is like a sculpture in many stages. I am building my first Viv for dart frogs and have done lots of research, but I know there are things I may have missed.

I don't have any pictures yet, I want to wait till I am done.

I have an egg crate false bottom held up by PVC pipes that are notched for water flow. I have a water pump in place and a waterfall made of rocks held in place by silicone and Great Stuff. (Yes I tested the pump.)

The The great stuff will be sealed over completely by silicone and covered with coco fiber and Aquarium gravel. There will be clay balls under the false bottom.

I have bio drain to put under my Sphagnum moss and coco fiber. I have 4 appropriate plants picked out from Josh's Frogs, (though not ordered yet.) I have some hollow bamboo I plan to use as planters.

I have a dried gourd hut I plan to use. I know most people put petri dishes under coco huts but I plan on removing tadpoles from the water feature with a turkey baster like it says in the book, "Poison Dart Frogs: a Complete Guide to Care and Breeding." I also know about Tadpole Tea and Oak leaves. I am not going to be a serious breeder and froglets will be raised by someone else. Also, if I end up not having a mating pair it's okay with me.

There are some ledges in my Viv held in place the same way as the waterfall. I plan to put in something to help the frogs get to the ledges if they are so inclined. I plan to put in Springtails and Isopods and leaf litter.

I plan on using natural spring water since a Revers Osmosis set up is out of the question.

I have a Zoo med lamp with a tropical UVB bulb and timer so it can be set to exactly 12 hours a day.

The tank is a glass, front opening, 12"x12"x18", Vertical ZooMed sold in a starter frog kit.

I plan on getting Fine Spot Luecomelas, which Josh's frogs says are okay 2 to a 10 gallon setup.

What am I forgetting?

I also have an isolation set up planned, but that is another thread.

Please remember I don't want to fight. So please be nice.

[Lady]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I have humidity and temperature gauges and an under tank heater if it is needed.

[DigitalPunk]

I think we all assume no one wants to fight.

The light wont be sufficient enough to keep the plants alive. You need something in the 6500k range for that. With a glass top the UVB is not needed. Most glass will filter all the UVB out anyways.

[Lija]

What am I forgetting?

you are forgetting what we told you so many times before, your tank is way too small to house 2 frogs, let alone waterfall and other things you are planning.

[deranged chipmunk]

Leca under the false bottom is unnecessary. The whole point of a false bottom is for water volume to keep parameters stable.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Frogman1031]

I agree with Lija in the fact that the tank is too small.

However if you still really want to use that tank, you will have to have LOTS of surface area.

Nooks and crannys that the frog(s) can get into but not get stuck.

Provide the most surface area you can by adding plants and foam to the sides of the tank too.

Yes, you wont be able to take a look from the side, but the frogs will feel more secure and will be more active.

They need caves and places where they can move around alot.

Recommend getting only one frog for that size tank.

Abg mix and the light paul mentioned would be best.

This tank CAN work, but you need to get everything else right to the t.

Ask whoever you buy from if they can give you the smallest male they can find.

Every little bit helps.

[ColleenT]

if you want a waterfall feature i think a 29 gallon would give you the space and height you need as a starter tank.They are not that expensive, Petco often sells tanks for $1 per gallon Sales. no one wants to be the bad guy, but we know what works and what doesn't. we'd love to see you have an enjoyable vivarium and happy frogs.

[Lady]

before everyone gets bent out of shape... I am willing to consider 1 frog but going up to a bigger tank is out of the question. Yes there will be hiding places and the lighting will be adressed. I plan to have this set up and running without a frog so that I can work out kinks. As to the waterfall, I really think it can be done in a way that does not take too much room plus it keeps the water from laying stagnant. The clay balls are there as part of the water filtration. I started by building the false bottom and learned of why the clay balls are needed after. I don't think I will ever post a picture because you people will all nit pick it to death.

[deranged chipmunk]

I'm not not picking. The clay balls are not needed under the false bottom because the substrate becomes the filter in that setup. But, I was only trying to help. I will shut up now and won't offer anymore advice. Sorry for troubling you


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[DigitalPunk]

Lady we are only trying to help you not nit pick you. Between the soil and the pump you will have all the filtering you need. Being defensive and abrasive towards any advice that differs from how you want to do it is a good way to alienate those of us who are here to help.

I will leave you to your build, best of luck.

[Lady]

The nit pick comment is really for the people who keep saying that the tank will be too small and don't do a waterfall. That is getting to the point of being a broken record in my ear. I have heard it. Thank you for the clarification on the clay balls.

[Lady]

I admit I am defensive and a bit abrasive. Some times I get along better will animals than people. Message boards were easier back in the days of the Billboard Service because then chances were you knew most of the people you were talking to out in the real world. They knew when you had baggage and why the chip you carried was on your shoulder. You people I don't know from Adam and so you are strange and threatening because I can't see the faces behind the words. I imagine there are sneers and cackling laughter telling me to just give up. That I will never succeed and I was never really invited to the party. That has been the story of my life.

If I have offended you I am sorry.

There will be only One frog. We will name it Mila, which is gender neutral. We continue with the build and the advice given has been helpful. I will post when it is finished. You may or may not like what I do but keeping the frog healthy is important. If I fail in that I will be truly heartbroken.

~Lady

[deranged chipmunk]

i think i can speak for most people here in that nobody here wishes you will fail. far from it, all the people who give advice do it because they love the hobby and WANT you to succeed. that's why we pass all the tried and true methods along to new people in the hobby. i know i, for one, can get overly passionate about the frogs that we can get a bit gruff, but sometimes, it's not necessarily a bad thing, because eventually, those we get gruff with, become successful in the hobby and pass along the same info, right Paul? :P

we're all here to help if you need us

[DigitalPunk]

Me? I was never a noob..... Ok ok lol.

Lady,

We only want to see you succeed and enjoy your new hobby and have a happy healthy frog. I can also echo what bill said and add that never once have I witnessed anyone laughing or snickering at anyone's tank or setup here on the forums. The people here, the community that is established her is all her to support, help, encourage, and pass on knowledge to each and everyone that finds us and joins. We are all one big family

I am looking forward to seeing you build progress and can't wait to see the final pic


Paul

[Lija]

Paul are you trying to hide under the table right now?

Lady, as Bill And Paul said already we are here to help, and we truly want exactly that - to help. Because we have been all in the same shoes at some point asking for help ourselves, have been through mistakes and disappointments and now we try to do our best for a new to the hobby people to avoid mistakes we did and much more.
Im new to tank building thing too, im not a pro by any means in that, but thanks to frog forum family, i now know a thing or two and will probably not spend as much as i did trying to fix whatever i did wrong the first 2 tries lol

anyhow, talking from experience, it is better when you are building your first tank not to assume anything, not to question but to accept help. Im so glad i did it the second time around and i should have earlier when i was doing my first tank.

I really hope you will accept help and have a happy healthy frog living in wonderful environment, that both of you will enjoy.

And hey these two look and sound strange and scary to me too. Lol

anyhow lets start from the beginning! Welcome Lady to the frog forum! I hope you will enjoy your time here and this wonderful frog hobby.

[Lady]

So now we have decided to move our set up to a different part of the apartment and are waiting for a dresser we ordered to arrive. The dresser will accommodate a bigger enclosure, but we have put too much work into the one we started and can't afford to buy anything bigger for a while. So I am still building the 12"x12"x18" but in the future we can buy something as big as 24"x18"x24". Too bad I will have to wait a few years for the bigger one but we will be buying the plastic tub for our quarantine next time we go shopping. I will order plants once the dresser is in place.

[Lady]

The dresser should be here by Saturday, but the plants from Josh's Frogs might be here on before that.

[Lady]

The dresser is here and the plants will be here tomorrow. I have everything I need for my quarantine tank and and the last bit of silicone is curing on the vivarium. So I should have the tank set up early in the week but there are still many preparations before I can buy my frog including making homemade fruit fly culture media. Thankfully my cups and wood wool will be in with the plants. Yay I'm making progress.

[Lady]

Ok, so I have the Viv put together and looking nice. I'm going to give my plants a little time to adjust before I post a photo. Mainly because I want the leaves to all turn to the light. I'm hoping that the materials are all frog safe, heaven knows I tried, but only time will tell. I have several hiding places for the frog that should be downright homey to an amphibian of that size. The humidity ranges between 80% and 95% at different times without a glass lid. If the humidity becomes a problem we will cover the top with lexan. The light is a tropical sun compact florescent. The plants are all rated for moderate light and will become more vibrant under intense light. They all seemed to purk up after some time under the lamp. Especialy the begonia, which was half dead last night after it's trip from Josh's frogs and in the future if it ever has to be removed I will have to put it in a container with a lid to keep it from dying from the air-conditioning.

If I can keep 1 frog alive for 2 years I will build a bigger enclosure and add more of the same species to it. So here's hoping.

[flybyferns]

Hi,

Sharing:
I have 8 exo terra enclosures ( 6 breeding PDF species)
Except for the 2 tree frogs enclosures, I have removed the screening from all 6.
( this is NOT difficult---believe me.......If I can do it anyone can )
If I had not done this ....it is my experience that the humidity would not be high enough.
Keep in mind this is not something that is easily done once the frogs are in the enclosure
Also keep in mind.....if the enclosure will be housing a thumbnail species--- the tubing holes in the lid of an exo terra will have to be siliconed /sealed.
Or they WILL get out. They are escape experts !!!! I could share some harrowing stories.

EVERY- hygrometer I have ever purchased has been inaccurate, and worked intermittently.
If used them, it would be for a guide only. We need learn to judge the humidity in every other way possible.

Have fun watching all your hard work grow !