A sculpture in many stages, My in Progress dart frog Viv...

[Lady]

Building a vivarium is like a sculpture in many stages. I am building my first Viv for dart frogs and have done lots of research, but I know there are things I may have missed.

I don't have any pictures yet, I want to wait till I am done.

I have an egg crate false bottom held up by PVC pipes that are notched for water flow. I have a water pump in place and a waterfall made of rocks held in place by silicone and Great Stuff. (Yes I tested the pump.)

The The great stuff will be sealed over completely by silicone and covered with coco fiber and Aquarium gravel. There will be clay balls under the false bottom.

I have bio drain to put under my Sphagnum moss and coco fiber. I have 4 appropriate plants picked out from Josh's Frogs, (though not ordered yet.) I have some hollow bamboo I plan to use as planters.

I have a dried gourd hut I plan to use. I know most people put petri dishes under coco huts but I plan on removing tadpoles from the water feature with a turkey baster like it says in the book, "Poison Dart Frogs: a Complete Guide to Care and Breeding." I also know about Tadpole Tea and Oak leaves. I am not going to be a serious breeder and froglets will be raised by someone else. Also, if I end up not having a mating pair it's okay with me.

There are some ledges in my Viv held in place the same way as the waterfall. I plan to put in something to help the frogs get to the ledges if they are so inclined. I plan to put in Springtails and Isopods and leaf litter.

I plan on using natural spring water since a Revers Osmosis set up is out of the question.

I have a Zoo med lamp with a tropical UVB bulb and timer so it can be set to exactly 12 hours a day.

The tank is a glass, front opening, 12"x12"x18", Vertical ZooMed sold in a starter frog kit.

I plan on getting Fine Spot Luecomelas, which Josh's frogs says are okay 2 to a 10 gallon setup.

What am I forgetting?

I also have an isolation set up planned, but that is another thread.

Please remember I don't want to fight. So please be nice.

[Lady]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I have humidity and temperature gauges and an under tank heater if it is needed.

[Lija]

What am I forgetting?

you are forgetting what we told you so many times before, your tank is way too small to house 2 frogs, let alone waterfall and other things you are planning.

[DigitalPunk]

I think we all assume no one wants to fight.

The light wont be sufficient enough to keep the plants alive. You need something in the 6500k range for that. With a glass top the UVB is not needed. Most glass will filter all the UVB out anyways.

[deranged chipmunk]

Leca under the false bottom is unnecessary. The whole point of a false bottom is for water volume to keep parameters stable.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Frogman1031]

I agree with Lija in the fact that the tank is too small.

However if you still really want to use that tank, you will have to have LOTS of surface area.

Nooks and crannys that the frog(s) can get into but not get stuck.

Provide the most surface area you can by adding plants and foam to the sides of the tank too.

Yes, you wont be able to take a look from the side, but the frogs will feel more secure and will be more active.

They need caves and places where they can move around alot.

Recommend getting only one frog for that size tank.

Abg mix and the light paul mentioned would be best.

This tank CAN work, but you need to get everything else right to the t.

Ask whoever you buy from if they can give you the smallest male they can find.

Every little bit helps.

[ColleenT]

if you want a waterfall feature i think a 29 gallon would give you the space and height you need as a starter tank.They are not that expensive, Petco often sells tanks for $1 per gallon Sales. no one wants to be the bad guy, but we know what works and what doesn't. we'd love to see you have an enjoyable vivarium and happy frogs.

[Lady]

before everyone gets bent out of shape... I am willing to consider 1 frog but going up to a bigger tank is out of the question. Yes there will be hiding places and the lighting will be adressed. I plan to have this set up and running without a frog so that I can work out kinks. As to the waterfall, I really think it can be done in a way that does not take too much room plus it keeps the water from laying stagnant. The clay balls are there as part of the water filtration. I started by building the false bottom and learned of why the clay balls are needed after. I don't think I will ever post a picture because you people will all nit pick it to death.

[deranged chipmunk]

I'm not not picking. The clay balls are not needed under the false bottom because the substrate becomes the filter in that setup. But, I was only trying to help. I will shut up now and won't offer anymore advice. Sorry for troubling you


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[DigitalPunk]

Lady we are only trying to help you not nit pick you. Between the soil and the pump you will have all the filtering you need. Being defensive and abrasive towards any advice that differs from how you want to do it is a good way to alienate those of us who are here to help.

I will leave you to your build, best of luck.

[Lady]

The nit pick comment is really for the people who keep saying that the tank will be too small and don't do a waterfall. That is getting to the point of being a broken record in my ear. I have heard it. Thank you for the clarification on the clay balls.

[Lady]

I admit I am defensive and a bit abrasive. Some times I get along better will animals than people. Message boards were easier back in the days of the Billboard Service because then chances were you knew most of the people you were talking to out in the real world. They knew when you had baggage and why the chip you carried was on your shoulder. You people I don't know from Adam and so you are strange and threatening because I can't see the faces behind the words. I imagine there are sneers and cackling laughter telling me to just give up. That I will never succeed and I was never really invited to the party. That has been the story of my life.

If I have offended you I am sorry.

There will be only One frog. We will name it Mila, which is gender neutral. We continue with the build and the advice given has been helpful. I will post when it is finished. You may or may not like what I do but keeping the frog healthy is important. If I fail in that I will be truly heartbroken.

~Lady

[deranged chipmunk]

i think i can speak for most people here in that nobody here wishes you will fail. far from it, all the people who give advice do it because they love the hobby and WANT you to succeed. that's why we pass all the tried and true methods along to new people in the hobby. i know i, for one, can get overly passionate about the frogs that we can get a bit gruff, but sometimes, it's not necessarily a bad thing, because eventually, those we get gruff with, become successful in the hobby and pass along the same info, right Paul? :P

we're all here to help if you need us

[deranged chipmunk]

I have used Lexan aka Plexiglass on my snake's tank to keep in humidity. It works just fine laid over the mesh and the way my tank is designed I belive this to be the best solution if the humidity drops. Though I tested the humidity not just by a gauge but also by sticking my hand in. It feels like the air after a heavy rain and only drops slightly when my air conditioner kicks on. My tank does have a small waterfall running down the back which will keep the humidity higher.

I have also already plugged the holes you mentioned with silicone. I had already heard about thumbnails escaping that way. Though right now the plan is still for a single Fine Spot Leucomelas since I am as my brother joked, "A First Level Frog Handler"

Just a note. With the high humidity in a dart tank, the screen at the top will start to rust over time. It's really worth the extra time to remove the screen because the rust ends up dripping into the tank. And while all animals benefit from small amounts of iron, that's just a bad kind of iron to be dropping into the tank.

Looking forward to seeing the completed tank. Especially curious to see what species of begonia you have in there, since most grow huge!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

Yup, I just got tried out the new National Geographic one, and it seemed to be working fine for about 2 weeks. Yesterday though, while I was airing out the tank for about an hour and a half, the hydrometer stayed at 83%, and that's with half the top screened and the doors cracked. I think I'll just rely on the health of the plants

I'm glad the tank came together, Lady, and I can't wait to see pictures . If humidity drops, a towel over the top works too FYI

I agree. I can tell what the humidity in my tanks are via the plant and animal health. Most commercial hygrometers are garbage and are just pricey paperweights. I haven't used a hygrometer in a few years now.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Lady]

I do agree that the health of the plants will be a better indicator than the humidity gauge. Over the long term they will be a big help. The begonia is a black fancy and it is really small now but all the plants will get bigger if I keep the tank healthy.

As to the screen the plastic of the lid is cracked and held together with silicone. I will have to replace the tank lid at some point. When I can replace the whole lid it might be worth it to remove the screen and silicone in some glass. I also plan to build a whole new larger tank in two years, and redo this tank as a quarantine only tank. So I don't think the rust will be a problem in the long term. In fact I think I will go price lids right now.

[DigitalPunk]

Sadly the tops of the Exo Terra tanks rust sooner rather than later. If the plastic is cracked you could just measure the opening and have some 1/4" glass cut to size. With the relative small opening on a 12x12 tank the Plexi glass should do fine as well. Plexi has a tendency to sag down into the tank over time due to the high humidity and temps. I only tried using Plexi once before I moved over to glass all together. Others on here use it quite a bit and would be a better source of info on what the max size is before it starts to bow in.

I think the screen on my Red Eye tank started to rust in only a couple months. (as a point of reference for you on how much time you might have). Reds tanks are kept at a much lower humidity, so I would assume the screen over a dart tank would rust a bit faster.

I took the lid to one of my 24x18x24 tanks to a local glass shop and then replaced the screen with glass and only charged me $18 to do it (they used 1/4" glass). So that might be an option as well.

[Lady]

OK I sent pictures of the broken lid to ZooMed and hopefully they will send me a replacement since it was broken when I got it. If they don't it will cost me about $13 and shipping to replace it. It is secure enough for me to move forward as it is and replace it when I have the new one here. At which time I will see about putting Lexan in place of the screen or at least something that will not rust and be secure. Since I was taking pictures for that purpose I thought you might like to see it as it is. Bare in mind that the rocks are all siliconed down, so they can't be moved and the waterfall leaves a natural shallow pool at the bottom for the frog to sit in.
Attachment 73737Attachment 73738

For the record the plants are a Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Red' in the pool at the foot of the waterfall, a Billbergia 'Casa Blanca' just forward of the rocks that make up the waterfall, a Nephrolepis exaltata 'Fluffy Ruffles Fern' dead center, a Begonia 'Black Fancy' in the front right hand side and two different Tillandsia on the ledges. If the Tillandsia do not work out I can pick them off the shelves and place them in a container garden. They are fairly cheap, so I don't mind trying them out. I also plan to add a slim piece of cork to run from behind the gourd to the top ledge. If you look there is already a hollow bamboo that will make a second ground level hide and lots of sphagnum and leaf litter. I want my froggy to be nice and at home while this is his habitat.

It takes time to learn and sift through advice, and I don't plan on buying the frog for a few weeks. He will live in a quarentine tub for a while as well. So there is time to make minor adjustments.

[jarteta97]

The pictures didn't show up for me. Photobucket makes it really easy to insert pictures, and it's what I use.

P.S. I love pics

[Lady]

Sadly the tops of the Exo Terra tanks rust sooner rather than later. If the plastic is cracked you could just measure the opening and have some 1/4" glass cut to size. With the relative small opening on a 12x12 tank the Plexi glass should do fine as well. Plexi has a tendency to sag down into the tank over time due to the high humidity and temps. I only tried using Plexi once before I moved over to glass all together. Others on here use it quite a bit and would be a better source of info on what the max size is before it starts to bow in.

I think the screen on my Red Eye tank started to rust in only a couple months. (as a point of reference for you on how much time you might have). Reds tanks are kept at a much lower humidity, so I would assume the screen over a dart tank would rust a bit faster.

I took the lid to one of my 24x18x24 tanks to a local glass shop and then replaced the screen with glass and only charged me $18 to do it (they used 1/4" glass). So that might be an option as well.

Lexan is actually stiffer than original plexi and harder to break, though not impossible to. It's the same stuff that the Mythbusters were using for their blast shield for a while, that is until they actually broke it. Oh yeah and you can buy it at Home Depot.