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Thread: 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

  1. #1
    ctroxtell
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    Exclamation 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

    My wife, a teacher, got a grant for an awesome fire belly toad. We got him/her (not sure of the sex) about a 2 months ago, and I had read that they were social creatures so I wanted to get Alexander a buddy. Well we purchased Ivan and the two seemed fine, then my wife's 4th graders come up saying something is wrong with Ivan. My wife gets Ivan up on to the rocks and there was this white foam all in the water. Ivan died up on the rocks shortly after this. Thinking something just went wrong we got another fire belly, named Kermit. My wife goes into her classroom today to find Kermit shriveled up and dead! I don't understand what is going on...Alexander hasn't died and we've had him the longest, Ivan and Kermit lasted only around 2 weeks each. Is Alexander killing what I thought would be a friend for him? Or is this my fault?

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

    Sorry for the loss of 2 of your FBT. Please copy and paste the below questions into a new reply and answer them as completly as possible. This will help us better provide you with guidance on what possibly could have gone wrong, or should be done differently.


    QUESTIONS

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    2----please include a photo of the frog
    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    8----what is the typical humidity level
    9----what temperature is maintained
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting
    -----for the frog's soaking dish
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials
    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    17---have you found poop lately
    18---how often is the frog fed
    19---what size feeder is given
    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    21---what is the frog's main food source
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    26---approximate age of the frog
    27---how long have you owned the frog
    28---who cared for the frog before you
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  4. #3
    ctroxtell
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    Default Re: 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    Bombina orientalis
    2----please include a photo of the frog
    Name:  IMG_20140909_112959[1].jpg
Views: 956
Size:  77.9 KB
    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    Name:  IMG_20140909_112415[1].jpg
Views: 929
Size:  81.4 KBEDITED: Just got everything back in order in the enclosure. Name:  IMG_20140909_130602[1].jpg
Views: 988
Size:  95.8 KBNote: screen lid not shown it picture but it is installed
    Enclosure is currently in disarray from just being moved back home till we understand what is happening.
    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    12" x 12"x 18"
    5----# of inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    Only 1
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    Has had 2 other buddies, 1st died then we brought another in and it died over the weekend, both died roughly about 2 weeks after being introduced
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    None of my wife's toad's were quarantined, they were purchased and just introduced into the tank
    8----what is the typical humidity level
    Not 100% sure, but had a filter pump running constantly to keep air humid in tank and help clean the water

    9----what temperature is maintained
    Temp. was around 75 degree's F

    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    Nothing other than room temperature
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    Natural lighting through large window
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    Water was changed out about 4 weeks ago upon moving the frogs to classroom
    13---what kind of water is used
    Tap water mixed with Tetra's AquaSafe
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    None at the moment
    15---enclosure set up:
    Filter pump normally sat in back right corner, had most the gravel pushed to the left side for a land and water on the right so the frog could swim. Used a hanging plastic vine to quieten down the water so as to try not to stress the frogs out, and a rather large piece of bark for the frogs to hide behind or climb on. Has a background of a rain forest on the back side.
    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    Yesterday
    17---have you found poop lately
    I think so, don't think I knew what it was at the moment though
    18---how often is the frog fed
    About every other day
    19---what size feeder is given
    Small crickets
    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    Occasional meal worms
    21---what is the frog's main food source
    Crickets
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    Roam free
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    None
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    Crickets are gut loaded with Flukers Orange
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    Not that I am aware of
    26---approximate age of the frog
    Very young I would guess
    27---how long have you owned the frog
    Only one still alive has been with us for about two months, other 2 died 2 weeks after acquiring them
    28---who cared for the frog before you
    Petco
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    I'm guessing wild caught from what I've read about pet stores
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    Very rarely, none
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    Kept in a 4th grade classroom against an outside wall by the windows
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    No, had no clue about quarantining
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    No.

    Thank you again, any advice is greatly appreciated. My wife's students loved having the frogs in the classroom.
    Last edited by ctroxtell; September 9th, 2014 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Updated pics and comments

  5. #4
    ctroxtell
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    Default Re: 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

    Any ideas?

  6. #5
    100+ Post Member Frogman1031's Avatar
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    Default 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

    Im sorry for your tragic loss .

    A 12x12x18 really will not sustain two fire bellies for long. Recommend get a ten gallon long.

    Quarantine is important. It makes sure that the frog is disease and parasite free. Just for future reference, a quarantine enclosure should include
    -damp unprinted paper towels as substrate
    -a shallow water dish
    -a place to hide

    The frogs should never be in direct sunlight. The glass is like a magnifying glass. Any old light bulb will do but a 6500k light bulb is needed for a planted tank.

    Water needs to be changed more often than that even with a filter.

    Gravel is an impaction risk. Especially since the crickets roam free. If the frog swallows the gravel it can become stuck in the intestinal passages and it is very dangerous. Gravel should not be used in a frog tank unless it is a few inches under water.

    Mealworms have high levels of chitin which is hard for the frogs to digest. They are okay as treats but i myself would never feed them to any of my species.

    Calcium+d3 powder and multivitamin powders are necessary and important. Calcium every other feeding and multivitamins once a week. Keep gut loading the crickets as well.

    Petco frogs are rarely well taken care of. They may carry disease.

    Not really sure what the cause of death was. Could be impaction or disease. I think there may be some pathogen floating around in the tank. Recommend placing remaining frog in QT and disinfecting entire tank with a 2% bleach solution and rinsing until bleach smell is gone then let sit in the sun for a day. Substrate and water should be thrown away. Remember to quarantine before adding nee frogs

    Good luck!

    Litoria
    caerulea 1.1.0 (White's Tree Frog)
    Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis ​0.1.0 (Anerythristic Honduran Milk Snake) Tliltocatl albopilosus 0.0.2 (Curly Hair Tarantula)
    Aphonopelma hentzi 0.0.1 (Texas Brown Tarantula)
    Avicularia avicularia 0.0.2 (Pinktoe Tarantula)
    Brachypelma smithi ex. annitha 0.0.1 (Mexican Giant Red Knee Tarantula) Monocentropus balfouri 0.0.2 (Socotra Island Blue Baboon Tarantula)
    Harpactira pulchripes
    0.0.1 (Golden Blue Leg Baboon Tarantula)

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    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 dead Fire Belly Toads...Why, what have I done!?

    I'm sorry for your loss Here is a care sheet for you to read through also - Frog Forum - Fire-Bellied Toad Care and Breeding - Bombina orientalis and relatives
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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