FBT sick. Cloudy eyes. Not eating.

[MegSeig]

Hestia has been with me about two weeks. She was fine the first week. Now her eyes are cloudy, she is not eating, her color is less bright, and she seems lethargic. Her buddy Pele, who came home with her, seems fine. I've never had a FBT. I've got no idea what could be wrong.

Theyve been eating crickets and super worms. Crickets last week. Worms this week.

[Frogman1031]

Welcome to the frog forum!!! I'm sorry that your frog isn't feeding well .

Superworms are not a good food to feed ever. There is a myth about them chewing through stomachs. This is true though so if you research this later don't believe it and be alarmed. The worms CAN , however, bite the frog before being swallowed. They also have a tough outer shell that is hard to digest. In order to help us help you, it is important that you answer the questions below.


QUESTIONS


1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

[MegSeig]

1. Fire belly toad
2. This is from before she was sick. I will get another photo this evening
3. its a ten gallon tank with reptibark, spanghum moss, and glass gems. There's a water dish for soaking, and a little ceramic jar for when they want to hide.
4. standard ten gallon
5. two FBTs
6. No, never
7. N/A Both frogs purchased together
8. ?
9. 78-80 degrees
10. bluish day lamp/red night lamp
11. I don't know what else you need to know about this question.
12. I change the the dish water every few days,, or when it starts to look low. There is a water area outside the dish too. Same thing,
13. reptisafe, I think. Will confirm tomorrow.
14. reptibark and glass gems for the pool area. Spanghum moss covers the reptibark.
15. diluted white vinegar, no plants yet, not sure what to get
16. I think Monday
17. No, but Im new to this. Not sure what it looks like. Night be buried in substrate
18. Daily, except weekends
19. I dont understand the question. I just put the small crickets in the tank. For the super worms, I put them near the frog. But sometimes they get away and I find them digging in the substrate
20. ?
21. crickets and super worms
22. free
23. ?
24. Aren't they gut loaded in the crickets?
25. ^ ^ ^
26. Young. Bought her two weeks ago.
27. two weeks
28. Petco
29. Captive
30. Extremely rarely.
31. Medium
32. N/A Frogs were purchased together.
32. None

[Frogman1031]

Ok, there are some things that must be fixed here.

reptibark, glass gems, and spaghnum moss are all extremely dangerous to your frogs. If swallowed the frog can become impacted and have digestive troubles and possibly die. for the first thirty days, the frogs should be in a quarantine enclosure. The enclosure should include
-paper towels as substrate (damp and unprinted)
-a water dish
-a place to hide.
-maybe a decoration.
this enclosure setup makes it easier to monitor feeding and poop. after the quarantine period, the substrate should be either coco fiber, or ABG mix or something similar.

Humidity is important to know. It may be the cause if the problems. A hygrometer (digital) that is reliable can be purchased for around 20 dollars

someone correct me if i am wrong but i think the temps are a little too high.

the water dish should be cleaned every day and replaced with treated tap water.

the crickets should be NO BIGGER than the space between the eyes. The frog can choke or become impacted. Once again, the superworms are not a good idea.

with the substrate you are using(which should be replaced), if the feeders roam free the chance of impaction rises significantly.

multivitamin powders are very important to the health of your frog. They should be dusted on the feeders, which again, should not be mealworms or superworms. How do you dust? I put the crickets in a high cup then pour some powder in and shake them around until covered.

no, if you are buying vitabugs, calcium is NOT added in. Even if it was, they would not be as nutritious as a dusted cricket. The same method for dusting the calcium. A good company to get both from would be repashy.

once again, the quarantine setup mentioned is important.


after all this, my guess is impaction. Look for lumps in the frogs abdomen. Hopefully other members will chime in with more info on how to treat it.

[MegSeig]

Thank you. This is very frustrating, as reptibark and spanghum moss were both recommended. The crickets I am giving them are small, so I think that's ok. I've stopped the worms and I'll take care of the tank.

Do they need to be separated from each other even though they came from the same tank?

So far, Pele seems fine. I saw her today. She lives in my classroom so I won't see her tomorrow. I've brought Hestia home with me and she is in a plastic carrier that is quite small, but I'll get another one. She's still alive but not moving around much.


I got a picture of Hestia. I'll post it tonight when I can. I'm about to run out the door right now.

[Frogman1031]

If neither frog was sick, then they would be fine together. However, in this case, the sick frog needs to be quarantined separately from the other frog.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! Very sorry your frog is not well . Well, appears you have been ill advised; so lets fix that by showing you a good care article for FBTs: Frog Forum - Fire-Bellied Toad Care and Breeding - Bombina orientalis and relatives.

Hopefully frog has not swallowed anything too bad and it can pass it. If right side is more swollen than left and feels hard, frog is probably impacted so let us know.

Cloudy eyes is a sign of a bacterial issue. Get a bottle of Melafix in fish section of pet store and prepare a gallon (or as much as needed) solution adding to dechlorinated water according to label directions for fish. Use solution for all frogs needs, i.e. water dish, etc. and to give frog 2 baths morning and evening in chin deep water. Clean water dish and replace solution daily for 7 days and let us know how it goes. Solution will keep OK for couple days when stored in the dark.

If your water area is filtered by cycled filter, you can do a weekly water change; but if not, you have to do daily water changes in wet area of at least 25%. Water dishes should be cleaned with hot water and refilled daily.

Recommend add not dyed night crawlers (Walmart or local bait shop) to their diet. Can cut into mouth sized pieces with scissors from pointy end. More information on dusting in here: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html. Hope this helps and good luck !

[MegSeig]

Hello and welcome to FF! Very sorry your frog is not well . Well, appears you have been ill advised; so lets fix that by showing you a good care article for FBTs: Frog Forum - Fire-Bellied Toad Care and Breeding - Bombina orientalis and relatives.

Hopefully frog has not swallowed anything too bad and it can pass it. If right side is more swollen than left and feels hard, frog is probably impacted so let us know.

Cloudy eyes is a sign of a bacterial issue. Get a bottle of Melafix in fish section of pet store and prepare a gallon (or as much as needed) solution adding to dechlorinated water according to label directions for fish. Use solution for all frogs needs, i.e. water dish, etc. and to give frog 2 baths morning and evening in chin deep water. Clean water dish and replace solution daily for 7 days and let us know how it goes. Solution will keep OK for couple days when stored in the dark.

If your water area is filtered by cycled filter, you can do a weekly water change; but if not, you have to do daily water changes in wet area of at least 25%. Water dishes should be cleaned with hot water and refilled daily.

Recommend add not dyed night crawlers (Walmart or local bait shop) to their diet. Can cut into mouth sized pieces with scissors from pointy end. More information on dusting in here: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html. Hope this helps and good luck !

How do you recommend handling the poor dear? I try not to touch them as I know its not good for them.

I don't see any bulges or anything, but I haven't picked her up and held her or felt her belly. I looked at it from underneath the little carrier she's in because it's clear. Didn't notice anything weird but she is flat against it.

I think I used to have some melafix for my fish, but the dog ate it.

[MegSeig]

The glass gems seem way too big for her to swallow

[Frogman1031]

They are still not a good substrate. For the quarantine setup you should use damp unprinted paper towels. For the final setup you should use coco fiber or ABG mix or something similar. Frogs can swallow things you wouldn't expect they could

[MegSeig]

They are still not a good substrate. For the quarantine setup you should use damp unprinted paper towels. For the final setup you should use coco fiber or ABG mix or something similar. Frogs can swallow things you wouldn't expect they could

Here is Pele in the newly gutted tank. she is still active and seems healthy.

Im going to go get the meds and the substrate later today.

Are these polished rocks ok? They are a lot larger than the gems, about 1.5 to 2 inches.

Also, advice on climbing? I havent found any plastic plants I like that are also reasonably priced. I am loathe to put sticks from the yard in there, though someone did tell me I can bake one in the oven for a while to kill any unwanted bugs. But this is the same person who told me to use reptibark, so...





This is Hestia. She is still sick. I have her in an empty container now with paper towel and a soaking dish.

I cant tell if this picture uploaded. Im having trouble uploading pictures.[edit: two extra pictures here. Cant figure out how to delete them, but Hestia is the one in the corner on the bottom]

[MegSeig]

I think one side is a bit swollen, though she seemed to be feeling better yesterday.

how do I give a frog a bath?

[Mentat]

If frog gets into medicated solution and spends most of day in there you can skip the bath. If frog stays on paper towels; a small critter keeper or a plastic container with holed up top filled to frogs chin level will work .

[MegSeig]

It seems certain that one of her eyes is clearing up now. I got melodic and will stRt it tonight

[MegSeig]

It seems certain that one of her eyes is clearing up now. I got melodic and will stRt it tonight

Her eyes look a lot clearer. But she is still leaning heavily to her right, as if that side were a lot weaker than her left. The limbs appear functional, and not broken or anything. She can still jump and move around, though she doesn't. She stays in the bath most of the day.

She is still not eating. I offer small crickets.

[Frogman1031]

No poop still? Have you tried a bath in lukewarm water?

[MegSeig]

I didn't notice any, but I did not have time today to examine really closely.

Here's some pictures of the eyes.




I have not tried the lukewarm water bath. She has been sitting in the melafix bath a lot. I can try lukewarm tomorrow.

[MegSeig]

So I found poop today. But she is still not eating. She looks suddenly skinnier , probably due to the pooping. She is still weak on the right side. Her eyes look about the same as the above pictures. I don't know what else to do. I tried the lukewarm bath but I don't know if it did anything. She didn't care for it at all. Her water is the melafix solution.

Any my further advice?

[MegSeig]

She ate a cricket!

[Mindy Sue Alliston]

Did the eyes clear up? Hows she doing? I have one doing the same thing and idk what to do