Well ****...

[irThumper]

After making up my mind to get Gray tree frogs, and being all excited about it, I find they aren't even legal to sell or own here... and yet I was told the Cuban tree frogs (the ones who eat EVERYTHING, including other frogs) are!? Apparently even Bombina orientalis isn't allowed here now, I used to have those guys in the 90's! American green tree frogs aren't allowed here either. This really sucks, *sigh*. I do love the WTF's, and I can get those, I'm just not sure I'm ready for the big boys (big girls, really, since they are even bigger). Now I'm depressed, I'm going to miss my little guys...

(My title was supposed to be Well "C.r.a.p"... I still don't understand why that is a banned word...??)

[ColleenT]

i'm really sorry, yes native species are illegal to trade. i have 2 Gray tree frogs i raised from a tadpole. in the spring time, often a gray tree frog will lay her eggs in a pool cover- if you know anyone with a pool, you can ask them if they ever get frog eggs or tadpoles in their pool cover- if so, they are probably Gray tree frogs. if you can find some, you can raise them the way i did. otherwise there are some cute small type tree frogs in the hobby.

[irThumper]

The thing is they aren't native to Oregon, and the state doesn't want them here because they say they are a threat to our native species... I already found out about not being able to keep our Pacific tree frogs as pets, but I was so looking forward to getting the Grays to keep in their place. So much for that, *sigh* Well, I still have Whites as an option, I just want to make very very VERY sure I am ready for them.

[ColleenT]

oh ok. sorry. take a look into some other types. clown tree frogs are adorable.

[irThumper]

Are they hardy and take to (albeit minimal) handling? I want to be careful about getting a species that is difficult to keep or really flighty. (They are adorable though!)

[ColleenT]

i don't have room for any more, so no, i don't have any, but i always thought they would be great to have. not sure on specifics, i'm sure you could find out easily enough. no frog likes being handled.

[irThumper]

We had PTFs when I was a little kid and some apparently enjoyed it. Don't know that I would have called it "handling" exactly, they just liked to sit on our hands or climb up our fingers. We had a Fisher Price Castle and Fisher Price Little People swing set and they used to climb all over that, they'd even sit in the swing while it was was swinging, lol. I miss those days.

[UncleChester]

Hyla gratiosa doesn't appear on Oregon's prohibited list (I'm looking here: Oregon Secretary of State Archives Division). I don't know how common they are in the pet trade in the states, but I've seen them a few times up here and their temperment/care seems similar to Grays (though larger and less cold tolerant). They'd most likely be wild caught though.

Maybe I have the wrong list above, but Cubans appear to be prohibited (for good reason).

[irThumper]

Those are the barking tree frogs right? What's the taxonomic name (is that the proper term?) for the Cuban tree frogs? I was told by a local pet store they can sell them, but I wouldn't want to risk any of those getting loose around here... they'd gobble up all the poor PTFs!

[UncleChester]

Those are the barking tree frogs right? What's the taxonomic name (is that the proper term?) for the Cuban tree frogs? I was told by a local pet store they can sell them, but I wouldn't want to risk any of those getting loose around here... they'd gobble up all the poor PTFs!

Yes, Hyla gratiosa are barking treefrogs. Cubans are Osteopilus septentrionalis. You might want to look more closely at you local fish and wildlife regulations than I have, that's just the document I found on google that seemed to fit. You might also want to contact local herpetology groups for more information, locals will be better acquainted with your states laws.

Pet store people don't always know what's what, and violations are often not noticed (here at least).

[irThumper]

I was given a PDF of the following:

OREGON ADMINISTRATIVE RULES
OREGON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE
1 – Div. 056
DIVISION 056
IMPORTATION, POSSESSION, CONFINEMENT, TRANSPORTATION AND
SALE OF NONNATIVE WILDLIFE

And it does say Cuban tree frogs are allowed... doesn't mention Barking tree frogs at all, but could they be a subspecies of a disallowed frog?

[irThumper]

I just checked and "Barkies" are their own species and not a sub of another, according to Wikipedia, so if they aren't on the list they might be an option! The stores here don't get them though, apparently, or they didn't mention those were available options at least... they mentioned Red Eyeds, Peacock, and Clown TFs, as well as the hungry monster Cuban TFs!

[irThumper]

I just listened to the call of the Barking tree frog... they should have called them the "Water Drum tree frog", because that's what they sound like to me, lol (Listen to Native American water drums on YouTube).

[UncleChester]

I was given a PDF of the following:

OREGON ADMINISTRATIVE RULES
OREGON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE
1 – Div. 056
DIVISION 056
IMPORTATION, POSSESSION, CONFINEMENT, TRANSPORTATION AND
SALE OF NONNATIVE WILDLIFE

And it does say Cuban tree frogs are allowed... doesn't mention Barking tree frogs at all, but could they be a subspecies of a disallowed frog?

Looks like the same document. You're right about the Cubans, my mistake. I had scrolled down and missed that I'd changed sections. You can also apparently have Cane Toads, cuz those have never endangered native wildlife anywhere. No sir.

[UncleChester]

I just checked and "Barkies" are their own species and not a sub of another, according to Wikipedia, so if they aren't on the list they might be an option!

Sorry to get you excited, but it looks like if it's not in the "Noncontrolled" or "Controlled" section then it's may essentially be treated as "Prohibited":

"For species, subspecies or hybrids listed as Prohibited or those species not yet classified, a permit will not be issued allowing the importation and possession of live wildlife..."

But it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong (even in this thread), so another opinion would be good

[irThumper]

Cane toads! Can you IMAGINE!? Yup, you're right, there's that loophole that prevents me from getting Barkies too.... razzkefrazzkeripsnort! >

Here's the whole thing (pertaining to frogs) in case anyone else from this area wants to know about what 'Phibs they can and can't keep here (Oregon):



Hyla gratiosa

635-056-0040
Requirements for Importation and Possession of Live Wildlife
For species, subspecies or hybrids listed as Prohibited or ***those species not yet classified*** (Barking tree frogs aren't classified??) a permit will not be issued allowing the importation and possession of live wildlife, except to American Zoo and Aquarium Association (AZA) accredited facilities, colleges, universities and those facilities which can demonstrate compliance with standards as provided in OAR 635-056-0050(2). For species, subspecies or hybrids listed as Controlled, an importation permit may be required as set forth by the commission.

(c) Prohibited Amphibians: Common Name -- Family -- Genus/species:

(B) Order Anura:
(i) Fire-bellied toads -- Bombinatoridae -- Bombina All species and hybrids; (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!) D:
(ii) True toads -- Bufonidae -- Bufo All nonnative species and hybrids except Bufo marinus;
(iii) Midwife toads -- Discoglossidae -- Alytes All species and hybrids;
(iv) Painted frogs -- Discoglossidae -- Discoglossus All species and hybrids;
(v) Cricket frog -- Hylidae -- Acris All species and hybrids;
(vi) European tree frog -- Hylidae -- Hyla arborea;
(vii) Cope’s gray tree frog -- Hylidae -- Hyla chrysoscelis;
(viii) Green tree frog -- Hylidae -- Hyla cinerea;
(ix) Mediterranean tree frog -- Hylidae -- Hyla meridionalis;
(x) Gray tree frog -- Hylidae -- Hyla versicolor; (*SNIFF!!!*) :'(
(xi) Chorus frog -- Hylidae -- Pseudacris All nonnative species and hybrids;
(xii) Australian froglets -- Myobatrachidae -- Crinia All species and hybrids;
(xiii) Australian swamp frogs — Myobatrachidae — Limnodynastes All species and hybrids;
(xiv) Barred frogs -- Myobatrachidae -- Mixophyes All species and hybrids;
(xv) Spadefoot toads -- Pelobatidae -- All nonnative species and hybrids;
(xvi) African clawed frog -- Pipidae -- Xenopus All species and hybrids;
(xvii) African bull frog -- Ranidae -- Pyxicephalus All species and hybrids; (No PYXIES!)
(xviii) Siberian frog -- Ranidae -- Rana altaica;
(xix) Khabarovsk frog -- Ranidae -- Rana amurensis;
(xx) Crawfish frog -- Ranidae -- Rana areolata;
(xxi) Swedish swamp frog -- Ranidae -- Rana arvalis;
(xxii) Asian frog -- Ranidae -- Rana asiatica;
(xxiii) Rio Grande leopard frog -- Ranidae -- Rana berlandieri;
(xxiv) Plains leopard frog -- Ranidae -- Rana blairi;
(xxv) Caucasus frog -- Ranidae -- Rana camerani;
(xxvi) Inkiapo frog -- Ranidae -- Rana chensinensis;
(xxvii) Toudaohe frog -- Ranidae -- Rana chevronta;
(xxviii) Green frog -- Ranidae -- Rana clamitans;
(xxix) Spring frog -- Ranidae -- Rana dalmatina;
(xxx) Dybowski’s frog -- Ranidae -- Rana dybowskii;
(xxxi) Stream frog -- Ranidae -- Rana graeca;
(xxxii) Pig frog -- Ranidae -- Rana grylio;
(xxxiii) River frog -- Ranidae -- Rana heckscheri;
(xxxiv) Turkish frog -- Ranidae -- Rana holtzi;
(xxxv) Iberian frog -- Ranidae -- Rana iberica;
(xxxvi) Agile frog -- Ranidae -- Rana japonica;
(xxxvii) Italian agile frog -- Ranidae -- Rana latastei;
(xxxviii) Kokarit or Taipa frog -- Ranidae -- Rana longicrus;
(xxxix) Brusa frog -- Ranidae -- Rana macrocnemis;
(xl) Nikko frog -- Ranidae -- Rana ornativentris;
(xli) Pickeral frog -- Ranidae -- Rana palustris;
(xlii) Mink frog -- Ranidae -- Rana septentrionalis;
(xliii) Wood frog -- Ranidae -- Rana sylvatica;
(xliv) Tago frog -- Ranidae -- Rana tagoe;
(xlv) European common frog -- Ranidae -- Rana temporaria;
(xlvi) Tsushima frog -- Ranidae -- Rana tsushimensis;
(xlvi) Carpenter frog -- Ranidae -- Rana virgatipes.


635-056-0060 (T) Noncontrolled Species
Except as otherwise provided in these rules or other rules of the commission, wildlife listed below may be imported, possessed, sold, purchased, exchanged or transported in the state without a permit:

(3) Noncontrolled Amphibians: Common Name -- Family -- Genus/species:
(a) Order Anura:
(A) Allophrynid tree frog -- Allophrynidae -- Allophryne All species;
(B) Hairy frogs -- Arthroleptidae -- Trichobatrachus All species;
(C) Cane toad -- Bufonidae -- Bufo marinus;
(D) African tree toads -- Bufonidae -- Nectophryne All species;
(E) Live-bearing toads -- Bufonidae -- Nectophrynoides All species;
(F) Glass frogs -- Centrolenidae -- All species;
(G) Poison arrow frogs -- Dendrobatidae -- All species;
(H) Ghost frogs -- Heleophrynidae -- Heleophryne All species;
(I) Shovel-nosed frogs -- Hemisotidae -- Hemisus All species;
(J) Leaf frogs -- Hylidae -- Agalychnis All species;
(K) Casque-headed frogs -- Hylidae -- Aparashpenodon All species;
(L) Water-holding frogs -- Hylidae -- Cyclorana All species;
(M) Marsupial frogs -- Hylidae -- Gastrotheca All species;
(N) Marbled tree frogs – Hylidae – Hyla marmorata
(O) Australian giant tree frogs -- Hylidae --Litoria chlorus and L. infrafrenata;
(P) Slender-legged tree frogs -- Hylidae -- Osteocephalus All species;
(Q) Cuban tree frogs (SERIOUSLY!?) :S -- Hylidae -- Osteopilus All species;
(R) White's tree frog -- Hylidae -- Pelodryas caerulea;
(S) Golden-eyed tree frogs -- Hylidae -- Phrynohyas All species;
(T) Monkey frogs -- Hylidae -- Phyllomedusa All species;
(U) Burrowing frogs -- Hylidae -- Pternohyla All species;
(V) Casque-headed tree frogs -- Hylidae -- Trachycephalus All species;
(W) Shovel-headed tree frogs -- Hylidae -- Triprion All species;
(X) Banana frogs -- Hyperoliidae -- Afrixalas All species;
(Y) Reed frogs -- Hyperoliidae -- Hyperolius All species;
(Z) Running frogs -- Hyperoliidae -- Kassina All species;
(AA) Forest tree frogs -- Hyperoliidae -- Leptopelis All species;
(BB) New Zealand frogs -- Leiopelmatidae -- Leiopelma All species;
(CC) Common horned frogs -- Leptodactylidae -- Ceratophrys All species;
(DD) Rain or robber frogs -- Leptodactylidae -- Eleutherodactylus All species;
(EE) Paraguay horned toads -- Leptodactylidae -- Lepidobatrachus All species
(FF) Asian horned toad -- Megophryidae -- Megophrys montana (nasuta);
(GG) Tomato frogs -- Microhylidae -- Dyscophus All species;
(HH) Narrow-mouthed frogs -- Microhylidae -- Gastrophryne All species;
(II) Sheep frogs -- Microhylidae -- Hypopachus All species;
(JJ) Malaysian narrowmouth toad -- Microhylidae -- Kaloula pulchra;
(KK) Tusked frog -- Myobatrachidae -- Adelotus brevis;
(LL) Pouched frog -- Myobatrachidae -- Assa darlingtoni;
(MM) Giant burrowing frogs -- Myobatrachidae -- Heleioporus All species;
(NN) Cannibal frogs -- Myobatrachidae -- Lechriodus All species;
(OO) Turtle frog -- Myobatrachidae -- Myobatrachus gouldii;
(PP) Australian spadefoot toads -- Myobatrachidae -- Notaden All species;
(QQ) Crowned toadlets -- Myobatrachidae -- Pseudophryne All species;
(RR) Gastric brooding frog -- Myobatrachidae -- Rheobatrachus All species;
(SS) Torrent frogs -- Myobatrachidae -- Taudactylus All species;
(TT) Australian toadlets -- Myobatrachidae -- Uperoleia All species;
(UU) Parsley frogs -- Pelodytidae -- Pelodytes All species;
(VV) Dwarf clawed frogs -- Pipidae -- Hymenochirus All species;
(WW) Surinam frogs -- Pipidae -- Pipa All species;
(XX) Mantella frogs --Ranidae -- Mantella All species;
(YY) Foam nest tree frogs -- Rhacophoridae -- Chiromantis All species;
(ZZ) Gliding or flying frogs -- Rhacophoridae -- Rhacophorus All species;
(AAA) Tonkin Bug-eyed frog – Rhacophoridae – Theloderma corticale;
(BBB) Mexican burrowing frog -- Rhinodermatidae -- Rhinophrynus dorsalis;
(CCC) Seychelles frogs -- Sooglossidae -- All species.

635-056-0070
Controlled Species
At the time the commission categorizes a species, subspecies or hybrid as Controlled, it shall also establish the controls necessary to protect native wildlife.

(3) Controlled Amphibians:
(a) Bullfrog (Rana catesbeiana) including viable eggs, hatchlings, tadpoles, juveniles and adults: No person may import, purchase, sell, barter or exchange, or offer to import, purchase, sell, barter or exchange live bullfrogs. Individual bullfrogs may be collected from the wild and held indoors in an escape proof aquarium as per OAR 635-044-0035. Release is prohibited unless the person first obtains a permit from the Director.

635-056-0130
Classification Requests
(1) For species that are not listed in these rules, no person may possess, import, purchase, sell, exchange, or offer to purchase, sell or exchange the species in Oregon.
(2) Species may be classified as Prohibited, Controlled or Noncontrolled. The classification may vary by activity (e.g., possession allowed, but sale prohibited). If a specific nonnative species, subspecies or hybrid is not classified as either Prohibited, Controlled or Noncontrolled, or is classified but not for a particular activity (e.g., import, sale, possession, transport), any person may either:
(a) Petition the commission to classify the species or allow the particular activity pursuant to OAR 137-001-0070; or
(b) Request the director to classify the species as Noncontrolled, pursuant to OAR 635-056-0140.
(c) Any person petitioning or requesting classification shall provide information illustrating that the requested action will not harm, nor has the potential to harm, any native species or its habitat. The information should be scientific in nature, in written form and include an appropriate literature cited section.
(3) In evaluating a request to classify a species, subspecies or hybrid, the commission may consider the following factors, when appropriate:
(a) Potential to introduce disease or parasites to native wildlife populations;
(b) Potential for interbreeding or hybridizing with native wildlife;
(c) Possible competition with native wildlife for habitat, food, water, etc.;
(d) Impacts on the habitat of native wildlife;
(e) Potential predation on native wildlife;
(f) Feasibility of capturing and eradicating escaped animals;
(g) Cost of capturing and eradicating escaped animals; or
(h) Any other factor or consideration the commission considers necessary to protect and maintain native wildlife.
(4) The director may appoint a Wildlife Integrity Review Panel to consider the information presented by the petitioner as appropriate. The director may, in appointing the panel, consider scientific expertise, professional background, and other qualifications needed to make sound decisions. The director may seek commission recommendations in making Wildlife Integrity Review Panel appointments. If convened, the panel shall make a recommendation to the commission on the classification of the species, subspecies or hybrid and what conditions, if any, should apply to the proposed activity (e.g., import, sale, possession, transfer).
(5) The director may call for scientific based studies or other verifiable information useful in placing the requested species in the appropriate classification category.

635-056-0140
Noncontrolled Classification
(1) Upon a request pursuant to OAR 635-056-0130(3)(b), the director may classify a species as Noncontrolled if the director determines, based upon scientific information, that the species presents a low risk of harm to native wildlife. In evaluating the risk, the director shall determine the relative risk (high, medium, low, unknown) for each of the following criteria:
(a) Whether the species' natural range and habitat is similar to Oregon's climate and habitat;
(b) Whether the species has an invasive history;
(c) Whether the species can survive in Oregon;
(d) Whether the species has the potential to prey upon native wildlife;
(e) Whether the species can potentially degredate the habitat of native wildlife;
(f) Whether the species has the potential to pass disease or parasites to native wildlife;
(g) What types of disease or parasites could be passed on to native wildlife;
(h) Whether the species has the potential to compete for food, water, shelter, or space with native wildlife;
(i) Whether the species has the potential to hybridize with native wildlife; and
(j) Whether the species can be readily distinguished from a native species, or a prohibited or controlled species.
(2) If the director determines that the risk for all of the above criteria is low, or that the risk for one of the criterion is medium and the risk for the remaining criteria is low, then the director may classify the species as Noncontrolled. If the director determines that the risk for any of the criteria is high or unknown, or that the risk for two or more of the criteria is medium, the director shall refer the petition to the commission for a decision.
(3) The director shall notify the petitioner in writing of any decision and the rationale for that decision. If the petitioner or an affected person disagrees with the director's decision to list a species as Noncontrolled, the person may request the commission to review the director's decision.
(4) The director shall maintain a list of those species classified as Noncontrolled, and shall make the list available to the public.

Amended March 2014

[Frogman1031]

Wow i don't understand that at all... Isn't it convenient that most of the "allowed" frogs are almost never sold into captivity? It's illegal in my county to sell white's tree frogs specifically but not to own them. Thank god for Connecticut being there to support me. And they banned every frog expect the rare, expensive, or HUGE in your state. Notice this is a tactic used to deter people from buying frogs. Too hard to find too expensive or just plain too big

[irThumper]

It's ridiculous really... and I can't even begin to explain how, under their own rules, they even allow Cuban tree frogs and Cane toads here...! *SMH*.

[ColleenT]

that is so bizarre. i am sorry about that. There are a few cuties on the approved list, tho. i hope you can find something you like. are there any reptile shows near you? that might be the best way to find something you like.

[irThumper]

We actually just missed the big reptile show this year (go figure, huh?) but I talked to someone from a very awesome small pet store three towns away from us and they regularly carry captive bred baby WTFs. I really love little TFs, but after finding out White's can live to 20 years (longer than a dog!) I'm becoming more convinced that I'm going to go Aussie!