So lost... my new toads are dead :(

[LilyPad]

My initial thoughts would be a humidity issue. We will be able to analyze things better once the questions are filled out. I'm sorry for your loss That's hard.

[junebug]

I did fill out the questions...

[Mentat]

I'm very sorry for the toadlets death . If you seriously suspect Mycobacterium marinum or it was identified by test in your house, throw away anything related to it. The risk to pets and human health is not worth trying to clean it .

Have you read the care article: Frog Forum - Bumble Bee Walking Toad - Melanophryniscus stelzneri (Weyenbergh, 1875) - Care and Breeding and the care info at Josh's website?

Now to next steps. In the future use 10% bleach solution (can apply with soaked scrub sponge) for 10 min contact, followed by rinse and treating with 4X dechlorinator solution followed by another rinse. Then let air dry for a night. Do wear eye protection, gloves, and old clothes when using bleach.

RO water is a big no-no with frogs/toads unless used to mist enclosure only. It will cause a similar effect to using distilled water and draw out valuable minerals and vitamins from toad's body into the water. Use tap dechlorinated with Seachem Prime or ExoTerra Aquatize. More on water in here: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...hing-else.html.

Toadlets same as froglets can dehydrate rather fast. For that reason, it's recommended their substrate be damp (dechlorinated tap) unprinted paper towels layered 4 thick and changed every 1-2 days depending on how many toads and enclosure size. The water dish should be cleaned in hot water and refilled daily with dechlorinated tap. Once toadlets are 4 weeks old then can use regular substrate (ABG soil for planted tanks or shredded coco for otherwise.

If toads are in the kitchen; ensure they are far from sink area to avoid any detergents/chemicals accidentally splashing into their enclosure. Hope this helps and good luck !

[junebug]

I was told to use straight RO water by folks here and by the folks at Josh's Frogs. My tap water is extremely hard with extremely high pH. I was told this was unsuitable for the toads and all of my research confirmed this. I suppose I could remineralize the RO water with the stuff I use for my fish, but I was specifically told to use it straight, so it didn't occur to me.

I have read all of the care sheets here and at Josh's frogs several times. I will try putting wet paper towels in the QT with the toads when I try again, however I am still wondering if I shouldn't just add new toads directly to the tank once it's seeded with springtails and Isos.

Regarding the mycobacterium, I have sanitized the tank. I know for a fact this sanitization method works, as I have already reused fish tanks that were affected by the bacterium after sanitization and the new fish are completely healthy. I am not going to throw away everything that has touched my tanks - that would be ridiculous. Things that are porous and can't be sanitized were disposed of. Tanks, smooth equipment, and decor that is not porous has been sanitized and reused. Mycobacterium is easy enough to eradicate once the affected animals have been euthanized, if you know what you're doing. It can only survive on surfaces for 30 days out of water. Given how long this QT sat dry AND the fact that I used approved sanitization methods after that, I know the toadlets were not affected by the bacteria. I was more concerned that they might somehow have been affected by the rubbing alcohol, but I seriously doubt that to be the case given I've sanitized fish tanks the exact same way and never had a problem in reuse.

FYI, bleach in any concentration is not known to kill mycobacterium and therefore I never use it on tanks unless to kill suspected parasites. Bleach kills 99.9% of bacteria. The other .01% includes mycobacterium. When I spoke with the people at LLL reptile (and here on FF) regarding the cleaning of tanks affected by mycobacterium for reuse with my toads, rubbing alcohol was confirmed as the perfect cleaning agent, as it leaves no residue and therefore is "pet-safe".

Their enclosure is on an island in the middle of my kitchen. No chemicals or detergents will ever enter it, don't worry. I keep a fish tank right across from the toad tank and it contains some very rare wild type fish, I would never risk their health that way.

[Mentat]

Sorry if my advice was of no use . Yet, three toadlets died within a matter of days and something killed them. Maybe you can try and contact Josh Frogs to see if they can help out and identify the causal agent .

[junebug]

Sorry if my advice was of no use . Yet, three toadlets died within a matter of days and something killed them. Maybe you can try and contact Josh Frogs to see if they can help out and identify the causal agent .

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be rude. I often come off very harsh online, though I try not to. I just wanted to make clear that this is not an issue of mycobacterium Unfortunately, due to it wiping out over half of my fish stock, I've become very well versed in how to handle it should it occur, and how to sterilize equipment exposed to it.

So I will ask again, here on this thread, if I ought to use tap water. I live in the mountains. My tap water has pH so high, it's off the chart on the API liquid master kit. I believe my tap water pH varies from day to day, since it comes from a well and mineral content is very dependent on how much water is in the well. I estimate my pH is frequently above 9.0, and I have no way of knowing how high it goes. It is also rich in heavy metals to the point where I can't keep aquatic snails or shrimp in it, it instantly kills them. Too much copper, which can be toxic, though not to humans. I recently tested for TDS and the TDS is very high as well.

So, would it be better to use this with my toads, or should I find another water source? If I should find another source, where would be the best place? I have a feeling "spring" water which contains electrolytes would be out.

[flybyferns]

Hi,
I'm so very sorry to hear you lost your toads

This was an acute cause of death.

It could have been a temperature issue ?
They do tolerate a wide range of temps -----70-80 °F
Could the temp have been over 85 for some time?
Especially if there was not adequate ventilation/ lack of a soaking dish/ or the enclosure was in the sun ( near a window) ?

I don't think a temporary elevated humidity could have been the cause.
However they can not tolerate a humidity leave greater the 75% for prolonged periods of time ( meaning - always )

Again, very sorry to hear this

[DigitalPunk]

I will have to agree that I suspect Humidity + the RO water to be the issue. Misting with RO water is perfectly fine, but as said previously properly treated Tap water is prefered for soaking.

Again I am sorry for your loss have you reached out to JoshsFrogs to let them know what happened and see what they will do if anything?

[junebug]

I'm actually preparing an email to them now, to see if they can identify the problem. If it was the use of straight RO water, or if that was a contributing factor, I'm going to be seriously annoyed. Poor little toads

[Fbt123]

Im really sorry for your loss.

hopefully youll have better luck next time

[LilyPad]

So weird, I see them filled out on my phone but only a pic on the computer.