Trouble with Milk Frog please help!

[ATJC]

Hi I'm new to this forum and have joined for the sole purpose of getting advice for my sick milk frog. I bought it about three weeks ago and I think it's about four or five weeks old now. The sick frog is one of three that I own and the other two are significantly larger, possibly double its size, and they are quite happy in their set up. For awhile now my frog hasn't been eating much and I thought it was down to stress but this morning I saw it lying on the ground of the terrarium in the corner. It was covered in coconut fibre (the substrate I used) and it looked like it was dead but as I tried to remove it, the frog started to move again. I can't tell if the issue is down to bacterial or viral problems or just an issue of food but it doesn't seem to want to eat and I don't think moving it to a feeding container will help so I've left it all this while hoping it would eat at night. It doesn't have red leg as I have checked it's underside and it looks fine, it is quite skinny and very lethargic, barely moving if at all on the ground. I tried putting him back on a silk plant as that's where they usually hide but he just dropped down to the ground again. Sorry for the long paragraph, that is all I can say for now. I'm really worried and would appreciate any feedback so thanks a lot in advance.

[Frogman1031]

Hi! Welcome to the frog forum!!

Are you're two frogs together? If so then the bigger one may bully the smaller one. Or even eat it one day. Especially if there has been no quarantine that is very dangerous and could spread disease.

Can you answer these questions? Very important for us to help you. Written by Lynn and Grif

QUESTIONS


1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

Thanks!

[ATJC]

1 - Amaon Milk Frog
4 - 30 x 30 x 44
5 - 3
6 - no
7 - no
8 - not sure about humidity sorry
9 - between 23 and 25 degrees c
10 - heat mat underneath
11 - no lighting except from non-direct Arcadia aquarium UVB bulb
12 - water changes and misting everyday, springtails clear waste very effectively
13 - bottled mineral spring water
14 - coconut fibre (ProRep coco brick)
15 - silk hanging plants, fake vine, bogwood, glass feeding bowl, shallow rock water dish
16 - can't say crickets disappear over night but could be eaten by larger frogs
17 - yes but again possibly from larger frogs
18 - daily
19 - no. 2 crickets
20 - none
21 - no. 2 crickets in a glass bowl
22 - no but I let some roam today and no joy
23 - none I wasn't aware I needed any
24 - calcium dust from Swell UK everyday
25 - most likely if it wasn't eating
26 - about 5 weeks old I think
27 - around 4 weeks now
28 - don't know exotic-pets I suppose
29 - captive bred
30 - rarely and without gloves but wet, clean hands
31 - low traffic
32 - no it's still with the other two
33 - no medication

I'll post pictures of the enclosure and frog in a few minutes.

[ATJC]

There are a couple of pieces of carrot in there to avoid crickets nipping at it while it stays on the ground.

[Lija]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

you have quite a few problems here. Your tank is tiny for 3 milks.

Get pedyalite or whatever similar you have, look for electrolyte solution that is not flavoured or coloured.

Do a water bath, 5 parts of water, 1 part of water, keep a frog in there for about 20 min, water level no higher then frog chin.

After place it in a quarantine tank - wet papertowels, all 4 sides covered, foliage. find a vet and get it tested for parasites asap!

your water, can you pls specify what you meant by mineral spring bottled water. Is it spring water or mineral water? At any rate you better get water conditioner and use it for your tap water instead.

[ATJC]

Hi thanks for the reply how do I go about doing the bath? I'm a little confused sorry about that. It's mineral water and I have asked my local reptile shop but they only ever seem to use normal tap water without any conditioner and I thought that was a stretch hence the bottled water. I'll see if I can find any though. Oh please don't say parasites I don't understand how it could have got that the enclosure is relatively clean and it's been in the leaves the whole time away from dirt until now

[Lija]

You need to find a vet to do a fecal exam ( to test poop for parasites) for you sick and for your healthy ones. It is normal procedure for every newly purchased frog. Parasites are little things that are invisible to your eye, they are not dangerous to you.

Dont use mineral water - for US people, they sell mineral water in Europe, it is different from our spring water.
mineral while is healthy for humans can be very dangerous to frogs, depending on the amount of minerals in there.

Use regular your home tap water, the one you use but add water conditioner to it. You can buy it in any aquarium supplies stores. It is used to get water ready for aquariums. I love prime by seachem, but any would do.

[Lija]

And dont worry about asking questions, ask for clarification on any little thing you are not sure about.

[ATJC]

Thanks for the help. I have cleaned out an old plastic enclosure that I've been using for feeding my bearded dragon so I'll move it tomorrow or do you think it would be better to hand dry and move it immediately?

[flybyferns]

The sick frog needs to be transferred to a hospital tank.

Amazon Milk Frog
4 - 30 x 30 x 44
5 - 3 - remove the the sick frog- asap- into a hospital enclosure ( any small aquarium/ critter keeper or large food storage container with air holes in the lid)
6 - no
7 - no
8 - not sure about humidity sorry ( place flat/ very dampened paper towel on the bottom of the hospital enclosure ) you can place the sick frog directly on the paper towel. You want to see water but not floating.
9 - between 23 and 25 degrees continue to maintain proper temps for day and night- see care sheet below
10 - heat mat underneath monitor the the temp carefully - do not place the entire hospital tank on the heat mat
11 - no lighting except from non-direct Arcadia aquarium UVB bulb
12 - water changes and misting everyday, springtails clear waste very effectively continue to mist the hospital tank with de-chlorinated water / springtails are not necessary in hospital tanks
13 - bottled mineral spring water - do not use mineral water ---it is necessary to use properly de-chlorinated water ( use an amphibian safe de-chlorinator /product)
14 - coconut fibre (ProRep coco brick) use only the damp paper towel for the sick frog in the hospital tank - the frog should be alone until it is nearly the same size as its tank mates
15 - silk hanging plants, fake vine, bogwood, glass feeding bowl, shallow rock water dish- continue to use the glass bowl and a similar water dish ( even a clean cup saucer will do - the water should not be above the frogs chin. de-chlorinated water only. If you do not have de-chlorinator immediately . purchase 100% spring water from the market, temporarily. a small sprig of a plant the frog is used to can be taken from the main tank.
16 - can't say crickets disappear over night but could be eaten by larger frogs feed SMALL feed the sick frog a few dusted crick every night/ continue to use a similar bowl
17 - yes but again possibly from larger frogs
18 - daily
19 - no. 2 crickets feed the sick frog small crickets only - the proper size crickets should be no larger than the space between the frog's eyes.. smaller is better than too big.
20 - none
21 - no. 2 crickets in a glass bowl
22 - no but I let some roam today and no joy
23 - none I wasn't aware I needed any
24 - calcium dust from Swell UK everyday
25 - most likely if it wasn't eating
26 - about 5 weeks old I think
27 - around 4 weeks now
28 - don't know exotic-pets I suppose
29 - captive bred
30 - rarely and without gloves but wet, clean hands
31 - low traffic
32 - no it's still with the other two
33 - no medication

It is vitally important the care sheet be followed carefully w/ the exception of using a hospital
( QT - quarantine tank while the frog is ill )
Care sheet:
Amazon Milk Frog Care Sheet - Josh's Frogs How-To Guides for Reptiles & Amphibians

Quarantine instruction/ideas
http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html

[ATJC]

Thanks I'll head over now and get some spring water. The enclosure is only that size until I can afford to get a bigger one in the near future.

[ATJC]

Just an update for anyone interested, I've quarantined my little guy and taken him to the vet (Shocking price for just a consultation) and he's been given medication to help with stress and a possible headache from circling on the spot - not sure why but he's been doing it since yesterday. Anyway he looks a bit better now but still hasn't eaten and the vet doubts he'll do well until he does. I told him that some of you thought it might be parasites so he's given me an undiluted solution for all three of them. Can anyone give me an idea of how to get him to eat? He has seen the crickets but hasn't shown any interest, I'll try waving a couple at him just for the medication but I don't think that will work. Let me know what you think thanks guys.

[Frogman1031]

Have you tried taking him out in a separate container so he can be in a closed space and leaving him? This method works poorly for tree frogs though as they tend to climb the walls and not see the crickets.

Tried other feeders? Dubias? Earthworms?

Tried tong feeding? Rubbing the insect against his lips?

This method should ONLY be used when ALL ELSE FAILS! Only in a time of ABSOLUTE DESPERATION!! Force feeding. You VERY CAREFULLY take a smooth, thin piece of plastic and pry the frogs mouth open. Have mashed crickets on hand. Place a scoop in the frogs mouth and close. Remember, this method is VERY VERY RISKY, STRESSFUL, and DANGEROUS and should only be used when the lack of eating is life threatening.

[deranged chipmunk]

Did the vet ask for a fecal sample? Did you take one with you for them to test? What meds did they give you? Tent should have given you instructions on how to administer them?

And to be blunt and honest, if a vet gave you meds for "stress and a headache from circling in the same spot", they are clueless about amphibians and I would find another vet. Or better yet, contact Dr. frye. His info is on here somewhere, I just don't have the link on my phone.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Lija]

bill, dr frye cant do anything, OP is from UK.

I dont want to say anything much... I hope you just misunderstood smth..

Can you please list what medications you were given and dosages.

[deranged chipmunk]

Ah, did not notice that they were from the uk


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[ATJC]

I haven't tried worms cause he is only a few weeks old and I assumed that those would be suitable for larger or at least older frogs I will try feeding with tongs if it doesn't take them from my hands. I would have liked to contact this doctor but if he is in the US I guess I can only go with what I can find here. He did seem a bit clueless, he wasn't even sure if the frog circling was normal but as a newbie even I thought that was a bit odd the first time I saw it. Sorry I don't have any details about the medication that was administered, the vet didn't give me any paperwork or anything just a syringe with the solution for parasites. I would have brought a fecal sample, I was even thinking about it in the car on the way there but because he hasn't been eating I haven't been able to get one.

[flybyferns]

One other way to - possibly - get food into him:

-get dusted crickets ready every night
-be right there as soon as the lights go out
( they shed - typically, right after the lights go out)
-remove the legs from the cricks - the cricket could even be - fresh dead

-during the shed ...drop the crick in when he opens his mouth and tilts his head back

Be prepared --- it could startle him, you don't want him to jump into something and get hurt- be prepared to block him from jumping

This works like a charm...however , you need to be there...and be get lucky enough for him to shed

[ATJC]

Thanks Lynn that does sound like a promising solution I'll have a look over night not sure if I'll find him doing it though but thanks

[Lija]

Can you call them and ask?
Feeding - i wouldnt do it now, circling around might mean neuro damage, he sounds to be weak, he might not be able to digest anything. Vet who give meds without testing sounds irresponsible and clueless, it sounds he gave them to you just so it would look that he did smth.... What if he gave you meds you dont need or for the parasites frog has (if it has) these meds are pointless.
He probably gave you panacur, how did he say you need to administer it to a frog? Did he say what's it he thinks is wrong it? If he charged you ( id think quite a bit) he must be responsible for his actions.

I still hope you misunderstood him... I hope....