Trouble with Milk Frog please help!

[ATJC]

Hi I'm new to this forum and have joined for the sole purpose of getting advice for my sick milk frog. I bought it about three weeks ago and I think it's about four or five weeks old now. The sick frog is one of three that I own and the other two are significantly larger, possibly double its size, and they are quite happy in their set up. For awhile now my frog hasn't been eating much and I thought it was down to stress but this morning I saw it lying on the ground of the terrarium in the corner. It was covered in coconut fibre (the substrate I used) and it looked like it was dead but as I tried to remove it, the frog started to move again. I can't tell if the issue is down to bacterial or viral problems or just an issue of food but it doesn't seem to want to eat and I don't think moving it to a feeding container will help so I've left it all this while hoping it would eat at night. It doesn't have red leg as I have checked it's underside and it looks fine, it is quite skinny and very lethargic, barely moving if at all on the ground. I tried putting him back on a silk plant as that's where they usually hide but he just dropped down to the ground again. Sorry for the long paragraph, that is all I can say for now. I'm really worried and would appreciate any feedback so thanks a lot in advance.

[Frogman1031]

Hi! Welcome to the frog forum!!

Are you're two frogs together? If so then the bigger one may bully the smaller one. Or even eat it one day. Especially if there has been no quarantine that is very dangerous and could spread disease.

Can you answer these questions? Very important for us to help you. Written by Lynn and Grif

QUESTIONS


1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

Thanks!

[ATJC]

1 - Amaon Milk Frog
4 - 30 x 30 x 44
5 - 3
6 - no
7 - no
8 - not sure about humidity sorry
9 - between 23 and 25 degrees c
10 - heat mat underneath
11 - no lighting except from non-direct Arcadia aquarium UVB bulb
12 - water changes and misting everyday, springtails clear waste very effectively
13 - bottled mineral spring water
14 - coconut fibre (ProRep coco brick)
15 - silk hanging plants, fake vine, bogwood, glass feeding bowl, shallow rock water dish
16 - can't say crickets disappear over night but could be eaten by larger frogs
17 - yes but again possibly from larger frogs
18 - daily
19 - no. 2 crickets
20 - none
21 - no. 2 crickets in a glass bowl
22 - no but I let some roam today and no joy
23 - none I wasn't aware I needed any
24 - calcium dust from Swell UK everyday
25 - most likely if it wasn't eating
26 - about 5 weeks old I think
27 - around 4 weeks now
28 - don't know exotic-pets I suppose
29 - captive bred
30 - rarely and without gloves but wet, clean hands
31 - low traffic
32 - no it's still with the other two
33 - no medication

I'll post pictures of the enclosure and frog in a few minutes.

[ATJC]

There are a couple of pieces of carrot in there to avoid crickets nipping at it while it stays on the ground.

[Lija]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

you have quite a few problems here. Your tank is tiny for 3 milks.

Get pedyalite or whatever similar you have, look for electrolyte solution that is not flavoured or coloured.

Do a water bath, 5 parts of water, 1 part of water, keep a frog in there for about 20 min, water level no higher then frog chin.

After place it in a quarantine tank - wet papertowels, all 4 sides covered, foliage. find a vet and get it tested for parasites asap!

your water, can you pls specify what you meant by mineral spring bottled water. Is it spring water or mineral water? At any rate you better get water conditioner and use it for your tap water instead.

[ATJC]

Hi thanks for the reply how do I go about doing the bath? I'm a little confused sorry about that. It's mineral water and I have asked my local reptile shop but they only ever seem to use normal tap water without any conditioner and I thought that was a stretch hence the bottled water. I'll see if I can find any though. Oh please don't say parasites I don't understand how it could have got that the enclosure is relatively clean and it's been in the leaves the whole time away from dirt until now

[Frogman1031]

Have you tried taking him out in a separate container so he can be in a closed space and leaving him? This method works poorly for tree frogs though as they tend to climb the walls and not see the crickets.

Tried other feeders? Dubias? Earthworms?

Tried tong feeding? Rubbing the insect against his lips?

This method should ONLY be used when ALL ELSE FAILS! Only in a time of ABSOLUTE DESPERATION!! Force feeding. You VERY CAREFULLY take a smooth, thin piece of plastic and pry the frogs mouth open. Have mashed crickets on hand. Place a scoop in the frogs mouth and close. Remember, this method is VERY VERY RISKY, STRESSFUL, and DANGEROUS and should only be used when the lack of eating is life threatening.

[deranged chipmunk]

Did the vet ask for a fecal sample? Did you take one with you for them to test? What meds did they give you? Tent should have given you instructions on how to administer them?

And to be blunt and honest, if a vet gave you meds for "stress and a headache from circling in the same spot", they are clueless about amphibians and I would find another vet. Or better yet, contact Dr. frye. His info is on here somewhere, I just don't have the link on my phone.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Lija]

bill, dr frye cant do anything, OP is from UK.

I dont want to say anything much... I hope you just misunderstood smth..

Can you please list what medications you were given and dosages.

[ATJC]

I haven't tried worms cause he is only a few weeks old and I assumed that those would be suitable for larger or at least older frogs I will try feeding with tongs if it doesn't take them from my hands. I would have liked to contact this doctor but if he is in the US I guess I can only go with what I can find here. He did seem a bit clueless, he wasn't even sure if the frog circling was normal but as a newbie even I thought that was a bit odd the first time I saw it. Sorry I don't have any details about the medication that was administered, the vet didn't give me any paperwork or anything just a syringe with the solution for parasites. I would have brought a fecal sample, I was even thinking about it in the car on the way there but because he hasn't been eating I haven't been able to get one.

[deranged chipmunk]

Ah, did not notice that they were from the uk


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[flybyferns]

One other way to - possibly - get food into him:

-get dusted crickets ready every night
-be right there as soon as the lights go out
( they shed - typically, right after the lights go out)
-remove the legs from the cricks - the cricket could even be - fresh dead

-during the shed ...drop the crick in when he opens his mouth and tilts his head back

Be prepared --- it could startle him, you don't want him to jump into something and get hurt- be prepared to block him from jumping

This works like a charm...however , you need to be there...and be get lucky enough for him to shed

[ATJC]

Thanks Lynn that does sound like a promising solution I'll have a look over night not sure if I'll find him doing it though but thanks

[Lija]

Can you call them and ask?
Feeding - i wouldnt do it now, circling around might mean neuro damage, he sounds to be weak, he might not be able to digest anything. Vet who give meds without testing sounds irresponsible and clueless, it sounds he gave them to you just so it would look that he did smth.... What if he gave you meds you dont need or for the parasites frog has (if it has) these meds are pointless.
He probably gave you panacur, how did he say you need to administer it to a frog? Did he say what's it he thinks is wrong it? If he charged you ( id think quite a bit) he must be responsible for his actions.

I still hope you misunderstood him... I hope....

[ATJC]

I did show up after closing hours so I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what it is he gave me but he did say specifically that I had to drop the medication on a cricket or two once a week. I meant to ask why rather than on the frog itself but I was just worried at the time and it slipped my mind. He didn't look like he had any idea what was wrong with the frog but I am 90% certain he said the medication he gave when I was there (not the one I have now) was for stress and neural problems from the circling. Shortly after he administered the medication my frog did start to look a bit drowsy, it hung onto the silk plant but was doing it with one arm. Hope that helps in some way.

[deranged chipmunk]

Instead of getting discouraged, take some time and call around to different vets and see if they have an exotic vet on staff or one they consult with. That way, you'll be prepared in case you ever need a vet again

And yes, while we normally think of guinea pigs as a normal domesticated pet, they are an exotic. From South America, I do believe. And here's the real shocking part, they are a food staple there


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[ATJC]

Lol my grandma told me that once I just ignored her cause she was trying to persuade me not to get one... I got two anyway. I'll be sure to call and look around for an exotic specialist. My mum told me over dinner that there is a pet hospital, or something like that, around but it's not nearby. I might check online later but right now I'll just watch the little guy for a few minutes, he's moving very little might try to feed him again.

[ATJC]

I bought some electrolyte and have him lying in it at the moment. He looks like he has grown a bit since yesterday, not sure if that helps, could this just be a case of dehydration? I keep the set up misted but haven't seen him sit in the water dish before. I hope he'll get better soon.

[ATJC]

Umm ok I want to know what you guys think cause I went down to the pet shop today and they said I could try feeding my frog bean weevils. I know that they can climb out the tank and they do boom when they breed very quickly so how should I feed them without them getting out? I just thought I might try something different in case he is being a picky eater.