Silk Worms As Horned Frog Food.

[AKFROG]

Are silk worms an acceptable occasional food for Horned Frogs?

[Lija]

One worm wont kill your frog, but silkworms contain triaminase, that will lead to vit b deficiency. I would completely avoid them, especially for babies.

[AKFROG]

Thanks Lija for the information.

[WorldClassFrogCoddler]

Dang, there is so much to remember about these little suckers. I don't think I'd be able to keep mine alive without this forum.

[GrifTheGreat]

Lija I believe you are thinking of goldfish not silkworms.

[Lija]

Nope. Im thinking about silkworms. They do contain triaminaze. However the amounts are very small to cause any real damage and id think only if fed exclusively. One way or another they are on vet warning list. Still looking for more info, as silkworms are very popular feeder for chameleons.

More info
Finke MD. 2002. Complete nutrient composition of commercially raised invertebrates used as food for insectivores. Zoo Biology 21:286-293.

Lots of other articles by PhD Finke,

Oonincx DGAB and Dierenfeld E. 2011. An investigation into the chemical composition of alternative invertebrate prey. Zoo Biology 29:1-15.


Very nice summary chart
http://moonvalleyreptiles.com/files/...eders-v1.0.pdf

[GrifTheGreat]

Seems odd that they contain a chemical found in carp and their related fish species. Perhaps their diet adds this chemical property to them?

[chibikaie]

Decided to do a bit of research, very interesting reading on the subject although no mention is made of any feeder insects: http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/...hiaminase.html

And if this link works: http://books.google.com/books?id=RZz...ed=0CCgQ6AEwAw it says that domestic silkworms have 1/3 the amount of African (pretty sure none of us are importing African silkworms ...?) So it may well be a concern.

Hm, learn something new every day.

[Randy]

maybe they eat carp

[DVirginiana]

Seems odd that they contain a chemical found in carp and their related fish species. Perhaps their diet adds this chemical property to them?

I may be wrong, but I think it's associated with the production of red/orange pigment (or at least the potential to produce it). Silkworms can spin bright yellow cocoons, so maybe that's why it's there?

[GrifTheGreat]

I may be wrong, but I think it's associated with the production of red/orange pigment (or at least the potential to produce it). Silkworms can spin bright yellow cocoons, so maybe that's why it's there?

I think you're on to something DV.

[Jeffww]

Silkworms are fine to feed. I raised my pac on a mixture of cricks, earthworms and silkies from a baby/sub-adult. Well developed and healthy after 1 and 1/2 years.

Also the silk worms in question are of the the african variety. There doesn't seem to be literature of other varieties containing thiaminase. The species offered normally from places like mulberry farms of the bombyx spp. while the dangerous variety is Anaphe spp.

[Lija]

Thiaminase has been discovered in both species, but there are more data on african ones, that are linked to acute seasonal ataxia ( involuntary movements and neuro symptoms) in humans in Nigeria.

Organic Value Recovery Solutions Studies - Nutrient Content of Insects

I've read more about it somewhere else too, can't find it now.