Sick Tree Frog

[Kaddock]

One of my Pacific Tree Frogs is paling to a muddy gray color... His lips are swollen and under his chin he has a dark brown patch... the kind of brown I would associate with rotting...

What do I do? He is still interested in food and I just enlarged the enclosure. They have plenty of hiding spots, humidity, and clean water. Any ideas?

[Paul Rust]

First of all welcome to Frog Forum.
Pacific Chorus Frogs change color based on temp and humidity, this is normal and uncontrollable.The dark brown wrinkled patch is there because he is in the middle of mating season and that is his vocal sac. If you still think something is wrong, post a pic and we can look at it.

[Kaddock]

Well, I just thought it was strange because the fading of color looked unnatural and coincided so perfectly with the swollen lips... I've seen them change to many different colors, but sickly grayish was one I didn't expect. If you think it's normal than I'll just keep just keep an eye on him them.

[Ebony]

Hi there and welcome. Could you post a photo?

[Kaddock]

I tried with my phone cam but can't get anything remotely clear for a picture... So... I've drawn you one! It almost looks like a butt is coming out his mouth, it's very swollen now and appears to bother him if I touch it. The protrusion is only on the upper part of his mouth. Also, I hope the patch on his neck is just the throat sac, cause it looks gross....

[Skulldroog]

I'd say don't worry about it too much, if it's mating season that's his vocal sack for sure..

[Ebony]

Im a little concerned about the swollen lips. Could be an infection. Going by the drawing though is difficult to no for sure. (great drawing by the way) So if you feel concerned about this then I think you should get him to a vet to be sure.

[Kaddock]

I finally got my hands on a camera, but not a great one... The male is in the second and third pics, he's got the worst lips. The female doesn't look too bad, but in person her lips look swollen slightly.

[Jace]

Yeah, that definitely doesn't look right. Hopefully Paul or Ebony can help you. Best of luck.

[Ebony]

Yes, it does look like an infection to me and she will need to see a vet asap. Is she still eating well?

[Paul Rust]

Off to the vet with it. That doesn't look good.

[John]

Could be severe ulceration but that's just a guess. In any case, the others are right - you need a vet in order to treat this problem.

[Kaddock]

Well, I've decided to send one frog in and get 2 times the meds... I can't really afford $90 + medicine for 2 frogs at the moment, but one is cheaper. Besides, I surmise that they have the same issue. I'll let you know what happens...

[Ebony]

Hows it looking now as its been about a week. Good luck at the vet

[Kaddock]

Not much worse, but definitely no better. I'm pretty sure they are both still eating. We shall see...

[Ebony]

Im glad it's not worse. Let us know how you get on. Good Luck.

[Kaddock]

The doctor said that she didn't know what the problem was, but gave me anti biotics and also said that their bones were very soft, so I've been offering them meal worms as a supplement to the crickets now.

Well, I'm pretty sure that nothing has changed for the better. The meds don't seem to have helped one bit. At this point I'm thinking that the only loose variable in their tank (ie item which didn't say it was safe for frogs) is the plant that I got at the dept. store. I am going to clean their cage today, and replace the plant with another silk one.

So... Now they will have coconut fiber on the bottom, coated with live "frog moss" a wooden log thing and serious amounts of silk plants! I'm also going to get them a better water dish today. I really don't see what could be going wrong.

I guess I will continue with the anti biotics (the vet said seven days, should I stop???). But after that I don't know what to do for my little buddies besides feed them, clean their cage, and provide detoxed water.

[Jace]

Soft bones? Are you dusting the crickets and mealworms with a calcium D3 supplement? Mealworms have really no nutritional value unless you need to plump up your little frogs due to weight loss. Mealworms are like the candybar of insects...a nice treat but not part of a balanced diet.

Even if the meds don't seem to be working, I would continue to use them for the recommended time. The money was spent on it, and it could be helping in ways that we just can't see yet.

Would you be able to post pictures of your setup? Perhaps myself or another member might see something that could make a world of difference? From your description, though, it sounds like you have a great setup. Unfortunately, the problem may be with the frogs themselves and completely out of your control; sometimes even Mother Nature makes a mistake. However, if the frogs are still eating, there is still hope. Best of luck and keep us posted!

[Kaddock]

Soft bones? Are you dusting the crickets and mealworms with a calcium D3 supplement? Mealworms have really no nutritional value unless you need to plump up your little frogs due to weight loss. Mealworms are like the candybar of insects...a nice treat but not part of a balanced diet.

Well, then what's up with the attached chart? Looks like meal worms have an OK rating, but less than a crickets... I just got them because the vet recommended them for some reason.I gut load my crickets (Fluker's high calcium cricket diet) I don't dust them. Half of them end up in the water bowl until they find a leaf and climb out, so dusting would be fruitless.

Even if the meds don't seem to be working, I would continue to use them for the recommended time. The money was spent on it, and it could be helping in ways that we just can't see yet.

I'm still medicating, but it's been longer than the recommended time by a few days.

Here is my picture with the dept store plant still inside of the enclosure... I wonder if it could be the soil they are sensitive too... Maybe Fred Meyer fertilized the plant with something nasty prior to selling it... Or pesticide! Now I'm scared... But that's their favorite place to chill, under the plant.

[Jace]

It's not recommended for frogs to be given food high in fat (as mealworms are) on a regular basis. However, I've used them to help a sick frog/toad gain weight, or to tempt a new addition to eat for me (bribery is an art form after all.. ). Regardless of the chart, based on information from other members, I usually only give mealworms as a treat and not as a main food source. I have never used a high calcium premade gut load for my crickets, so I'm not sure if an added dusting would be beneficial or not. Though I allow my PCF, Yoki, to hunt, I usually feed him two dusted crickets a week using feeding tongs to make sure he is getting his calcium.

Your setup looks fine to me. Similar to what I have done for Yoki-dirt base with a layering of moss overtop. If there were fertilizers or pesticides present, I think your frogs would have reacted much more violently and perhaps not still be alive. I always soak my plants several times in clean, treated water, and thoroughly wash the roots before putting them into my enclosures, just to be on the safe side.

I'm just putting this out there, but I wonder if the plastic water dish might be an issue? I know on another thread in the forum, it was mentioned not to keep young frogs in plastic pet containers as they seem to die-perhaps from the plastic leaking soemthing. With all the negativity about plastic everything nowadays, I wonder if it could be true for using plastic water dishes, especially with frogs being so sensitive?