Sick Tree Frog

[Kaddock]

Not much worse, but definitely no better. I'm pretty sure they are both still eating. We shall see...

[Ebony]

Im glad it's not worse. Let us know how you get on. Good Luck.

[Kaddock]

The doctor said that she didn't know what the problem was, but gave me anti biotics and also said that their bones were very soft, so I've been offering them meal worms as a supplement to the crickets now.

Well, I'm pretty sure that nothing has changed for the better. The meds don't seem to have helped one bit. At this point I'm thinking that the only loose variable in their tank (ie item which didn't say it was safe for frogs) is the plant that I got at the dept. store. I am going to clean their cage today, and replace the plant with another silk one.

So... Now they will have coconut fiber on the bottom, coated with live "frog moss" a wooden log thing and serious amounts of silk plants! I'm also going to get them a better water dish today. I really don't see what could be going wrong.

I guess I will continue with the anti biotics (the vet said seven days, should I stop???). But after that I don't know what to do for my little buddies besides feed them, clean their cage, and provide detoxed water.

[Jace]

Soft bones? Are you dusting the crickets and mealworms with a calcium D3 supplement? Mealworms have really no nutritional value unless you need to plump up your little frogs due to weight loss. Mealworms are like the candybar of insects...a nice treat but not part of a balanced diet.

Even if the meds don't seem to be working, I would continue to use them for the recommended time. The money was spent on it, and it could be helping in ways that we just can't see yet.

Would you be able to post pictures of your setup? Perhaps myself or another member might see something that could make a world of difference? From your description, though, it sounds like you have a great setup. Unfortunately, the problem may be with the frogs themselves and completely out of your control; sometimes even Mother Nature makes a mistake. However, if the frogs are still eating, there is still hope. Best of luck and keep us posted!

[Kaddock]

Soft bones? Are you dusting the crickets and mealworms with a calcium D3 supplement? Mealworms have really no nutritional value unless you need to plump up your little frogs due to weight loss. Mealworms are like the candybar of insects...a nice treat but not part of a balanced diet.

Well, then what's up with the attached chart? Looks like meal worms have an OK rating, but less than a crickets... I just got them because the vet recommended them for some reason.I gut load my crickets (Fluker's high calcium cricket diet) I don't dust them. Half of them end up in the water bowl until they find a leaf and climb out, so dusting would be fruitless.

Even if the meds don't seem to be working, I would continue to use them for the recommended time. The money was spent on it, and it could be helping in ways that we just can't see yet.

I'm still medicating, but it's been longer than the recommended time by a few days.

Here is my picture with the dept store plant still inside of the enclosure... I wonder if it could be the soil they are sensitive too... Maybe Fred Meyer fertilized the plant with something nasty prior to selling it... Or pesticide! Now I'm scared... But that's their favorite place to chill, under the plant.

[Jace]

It's not recommended for frogs to be given food high in fat (as mealworms are) on a regular basis. However, I've used them to help a sick frog/toad gain weight, or to tempt a new addition to eat for me (bribery is an art form after all.. ). Regardless of the chart, based on information from other members, I usually only give mealworms as a treat and not as a main food source. I have never used a high calcium premade gut load for my crickets, so I'm not sure if an added dusting would be beneficial or not. Though I allow my PCF, Yoki, to hunt, I usually feed him two dusted crickets a week using feeding tongs to make sure he is getting his calcium.

Your setup looks fine to me. Similar to what I have done for Yoki-dirt base with a layering of moss overtop. If there were fertilizers or pesticides present, I think your frogs would have reacted much more violently and perhaps not still be alive. I always soak my plants several times in clean, treated water, and thoroughly wash the roots before putting them into my enclosures, just to be on the safe side.

I'm just putting this out there, but I wonder if the plastic water dish might be an issue? I know on another thread in the forum, it was mentioned not to keep young frogs in plastic pet containers as they seem to die-perhaps from the plastic leaking soemthing. With all the negativity about plastic everything nowadays, I wonder if it could be true for using plastic water dishes, especially with frogs being so sensitive?

[Kaddock]

Hmm.... Well, I'll try washing the plant and it's roots, and maybe just use the coconut substrate to replant it. I'll think about grabbing a ceramic dish tomorrow from the pet store, couldn't hurt. Thanks!

[Kurt]

I'm just putting this out there, but I wonder if the plastic water dish might be an issue? I know on another thread in the forum, it was mentioned not to keep young frogs in plastic pet containers as they seem to die-perhaps from the plastic leaking soemthing. With all the negativity about plastic everything nowadays, I wonder if it could be true for using plastic water dishes, especially with frogs being so sensitive?

The jury is still out on that. I have talked to one breeder who stated that polycarbonate cages (faunarium, critter keepers, and so on) kill baby red-eyes. I know of no scientific data to back-up that claim.

Then I talked to Michael Novy and he said that's BS, and that he uses them all the time with no problem. Still I feel safer glass, because I know that is inert.

[Kaddock]

Well... I've been using the meds everyday, but I think I may discontinue them as not only has it been twice the recommended treatment period, but there has been no affect. They don't seem too much worse, but the male is noticeably more sluggish than the female. Her lips have now swollen as large as his. I changed the water to a ceramic bowl as well. I think they may be done for, but I will continue to care for them and love them... They are still eating, and the female seems pretty active. The male spends more time hiding, but he still jumps and climbs, so maybe he's just a grumper. Any more ideas? At this point I don't know what it could be besides minor exposure to the poison that was on the floor. I'll let you know if there's any more developments.

[Gaby]

Hi, I am new to this sight. I just registered to ask a similar question. I have 11 PCF's that I rescued as tadpoles from a puddle. They are fat and happy. I do however have 1 male frog that has developed the same lip condition. I am currently calling him fat lip. He is also still eating just fine. He does seem to put his head back pretty far some times like he is trying to breath. Although I know he is getting plenty of air. I had left off dusting the crickets that I raise or get from the pet store with calcium for the same reason. I didn't see the point with the water just washing the calcium off. I will definately be going back to doing that. My set up is somewhat different than yours. I have a level of water in half the tank that is about an inch deep. I only use natural items in my tank. It is quite large. The frogs all get along great and only the one has developed this lip condition. They are all over a year old. I use house plants that I soak before putting them in my tank and I have removed all of the soil from the beginning. I haven't found a plant yet that can't survive in just water. I did just recently place a dish designed for reptiles into the tank. But it hasn't seemed to affect any of my other frogs. I took mine to the vet and he indicated that some frogs can develop abnormalities that don't show up till later in life due to the heavy metals in the water of streams and just about everywhere else also. May I ask the name of the medication that your doctor perscribed for your frog? Another vet I took my frog to sugested that it is possible that my frog could have been bitten by one of the crickets he ate and it could be an infection. I have never used meal worms because they gross me out and I understand them to be of less nutritional value than crickets. I raise my own crickets off and on. Meal worms also bite. The larger ones do anyway. They bite fingers if you put them in by hand. I have 10" tongs. I have force fed my frog a couple of times because he seemed like he was becoming disinterested in his food. The doctor said if they stop eating on their own you have to keep them fed by force feeding to keep an apetite going. After 2 force feedings he went a couple of days then he snatched a big fat cricket on his own. I was very happy. He seems happy enough. The dark patch on your frogs neck is perfectly normal because he is a male. My frogs turn every color of the spectrum. I have 2 that are bright green. 1 that is a copper color. 3 that alternate between very dark, brown, taupe, grey. I even have 1 that is almost white most of the time. I am going to be sure to let the tank water for cleaning sit for a day to disipate any chemical etc. I have half coconut shells in my tank and champagne corks. I will try to add a photo after I clean the tank this weekend. I hope to keep in touch with this thread and see if we can't help each other out. Thank you so much for all of the info and the opportunity to communicate with others that understand. I hope your frog stays well. I will let you know anything I find out myself. Thanks.