Please help! All 4 of my tiny frogs died overnight :( Not sure if they're Tree Frogs

[MissNtuen]

Me and my son rescued some tads from my friends pond because they were cleaning their pond out. Some already had front & back legs so they transformed pretty fast. Each day I would get little frogs under an inch. And its just amazing to actually see the transformation (only read about it). So I set up these tiny habitats for them a 32 ounce container with moss plants and substrate n a few rocks and bugs. I kept each habitat damp and made sure they were eating. Meanwhile I always wanted to make a live vivarium for them. I ordered everything needed offline and made a temporary home for four of the frogs. Last nite I put them in their new temp. Habitat stocked with a few bugs and 1 baby cricket (I don't know why I thought the frog would be able to eat the cricket.....the cricket won all the fights) but it was strange because when the frogs were first introduced to the habitat they we're loving it. And then maybe a few hours later I noticed they were all huddled up in the middle of the tank sitting on top of the gravel like they were frozen and couldnt move. So I touch them to see what what happened and they responded well. When I woke up this morning I couldn't find any of them I had to stare real hard at the tank and then I noticed two of them were dead end look like they were dehydrated.

How do i upload pics? Because i really need someone to confirm my suspicions of them being tree frogs and if they're not what are they??

I am so saddened by this. I think I did something wrong. I dont think I add enough water to the terrarium Moss like I did for the single habitats they were in before. What other reasons could it be?

This may sound crazy but do you think the cricket could have played a part of this? By stressing them out? Last week one of my frogs just turned and as I tried to take him out the tank to his single habitat, he fell in the water and just died on the spot. Like he had a heart attack! Same thing happened yesterday. Im afraid to make this viv and I was so excited about this temporary little starter viv I had set up.

So many questions to ask about my tads & frogs and dont know where to begin!

I am very new to this but I always had a soft spot for frogs and all animals. And I dont want the rest of my frogs to suffer. Im gonna try to upload pics. Just gotta figure out how

[ColleenT]

possibly the water change killed them.

[LilyPad]

Pictures would help here. There is a little icon that says "insert image" when you mouse over it. Click that to upload them.

Food should be no bigger than the space between their eyes. A cricket will definitely bite the frogs. They should be kept on damp, unprinted paper towel as they morph, skip the gravel (always) moss and substrate. Being unsure as to what species they are, I would keep a bowl of water in there no deeper than their chin, and it should be treated with a dechlorinator.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF ! There are many possibilities in here. Was water treated with dechlorinator?

A too dry substrate is bad for froglets. As Amy stated, they should be kept for first 4 weeks in daily changed damp unprinted paper towels as substrate. Gravel is no good for frogs; if eaten it can lead to impaction.

How big was cricket and what is froglet snout to vent length? Too big a cricket can harm the frogs by actually biting them, specially if left in enclosure and it gets hungry. Insects should be no bigger than distance between froglets eyes, gut loaded, and removed from enclosure if not eaten in couple hours or overnight.

[Fbt123]

I agree with Carlos about the gravel. Never and i mean NEVER, use gravel. One of my frogs is ill due to swallowing it and i feel terrible as i did it to her .

[DigitalPunk]

Amy and Carlos have you well covered. Post some pics and we can help guide you in ways to avoid this in the future. With the deaths being so quick I to would suspect that you used regular tap water and didn't treat it. I am sorry for your loss. Hopefully we can help shed some light on it for you.

All the best

Paul

[MissNtuen]

he's all shribbled up


heres the other one. I could only find these 2.

the small habitat i put them in a week after they got there limbs
They are so tiny and cute. They are green and i think one is like a greyish green dark color

these habitats i keep them in now right after they start sticking to the wall & tail is almost gone. One or two frogs at the most in each 32oz.

[MissNtuen]

Thanks Colleen I usually use poland spring water but this time I used ice glacier. But its still spring water. I posted pics

[Frogman1031]

They look like cute baby grey tree frogs Frog Forum - Gray Tree Frog Care and Breeding

[MissNtuen]

Thank you Amy, I used ice glacier this time instead of poland with no dechlorinator. I see i made so many mistakes. And i know realize how dry it was. And the cricket was almost the size the of the frog. I asked an employee at petco and they told me it was ok & they would each it at that size. I never heard of this paper towel method. I def wanna try it this way. Im gonna see if i can find a youtube vid on it maybe. My babies are the size of a dime almost. I posted pics of the others but you can see in the pics how they just dried up over night. I hope these pics are good enough because they are too fast for me to get close & try to get out everytime i open the container. I also posted pics of the habitat they are in now. Is it too much? They are suppose to be on the paper towel until the tail fully disappears?

Pictures would help here. There is a little icon that says "insert image" when you mouse over it. Click that to upload them.

Food should be no bigger than the space between their eyes. A cricket will definitely bite the frogs. They should be kept on damp, unprinted paper towel as they morph, skip the gravel (always) moss and substrate. Being unsure as to what species they are, I would keep a bowl of water in there no deeper than their chin, and it should be treated with a dechlorinator.

[MissNtuen]

Thank you so much Carlos, Im glad i found this forum. I used regular spring water w/o dechorinating. When you say froglets, you mean they are starting to form their legs? Not baby tads right? As soon as they get their front and back limbs they should go on unprinted paper towels until their tail disappear? The cricket was almost the same size as the babies. But i was told by a amph specialist at petco the frogs will eat a cricket the same size.......so i know they were def stressed out by him being in their presence. They were trying to attack the cricket but the cricket was fighting back. What do you mean by froglet snout to vent length? I posted pics

Hello and welcome to FF ! There are many possibilities in here. Was water treated with dechlorinator?

A too dry substrate is bad for froglets. As Amy stated, they should be kept for first 4 weeks in daily changed damp unprinted paper towels as substrate. Gravel is no good for frogs; if eaten it can lead to impaction.

How big was cricket and what is froglet snout to vent length? Too big a cricket can harm the frogs by actually biting them, specially if left in enclosure and it gets hungry. Insects should be no bigger than distance between froglets eyes, gut loaded, and removed from enclosure if not eaten in couple hours or overnight.

[Frogman1031]

Snout to vent is the length from the tip of the frogs nose to their end without their legs stretched out

[MissNtuen]

Im sorry to hear that Tom. I had no idea gravel was so detrimental for frogs. And I have about 6 other froglets in single habitats that have gravel in them.....just changed them out tho. Im now debating if i should Try altering there habitats again but i dont want to keep handling them while they are so young.

I agree with Carlos about the gravel. Never and i mean NEVER, use gravel. One of my frogs is ill due to swallowing it and i feel terrible as i did it to her .

[MissNtuen]

Thank you Paul. I just want to make sure from here on out i do it the right way. I think i got so excited about them morphing and trying to make a viv for them, i didnt do enough research. I used spring water but not alot. I only sprayed the tank a few times but In their old hab i drenched it with water. I posted pics and comparing the pics i now know i def needed to put more water in their.

Amy and Carlos have you well covered. Post some pics and we can help guide you in ways to avoid this in the future. With the deaths being so quick I to would suspect that you used regular tap water and didn't treat it. I am sorry for your loss. Hopefully we can help shed some light on it for you.

All the best

Paul

[MissNtuen]

Thank u Eli! They are so fast for me to tell but i do know they are smaller than a dime or almost the size. One got out yesterday when i misted their hab and I was so afraid to hurt it when catching it. They actually look bigger in the pics. The plants are small & those are close ups. I just googled grey tree frogs and i think your right. I just assumed they were green tree frogs because they are common and green once they morph.

Snout to vent is the length from the tip of the frogs nose to their end without their legs stretched out

[Mentat]

Vent is their little butt; so SVL is the frog's body length without extremities. A froglet is a fully metamorphosed baby frog with four legs (either with or without tail). You keep froglets in damp paper towel past them adsorbing tail; usually 3-4 weeks after becoming froglets.

Bottled water is made for human drinking after meeting city codes (which vary according to location politics). It could be over-filtered; have chloramines; and made unsuitable for frogs. They can call it spring water because once it was; but it's treated. More on that here: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...hing-else.html.

At dime size the froglets should be eating pinhead (just born = 1/8 in.) crickets, roach nymphs sized same as distance between frog's eyes, and D. hydei fruit flies. All food should be dusted with supplements, here are some sample schedules: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html.

As for the Petco "amphibian expert" that recommended crickets the size of baby frogs... recommend he/she joins the forum and stops putting out information that is leading to frog's deaths .

[Heatheranne]

Hi all,

It looks like our forum members and friends have got you headed in the right direction.

Your babies are tree frogs... Baby grey/ gray tree frogs.

You'll need to quarantine them for at least 30 days:

Unprinted, plain paper towels as floor/substrate, changed every 1-2 days.

Shallow water bowl with fresh dechlorinated water, water changed daily.

Water:
All water for water bowl and any substrate should be dechlorinated (treated) and also treated for heavy metal neutralization. Dechlorinating solutions can be found in the amphibian section or fish areas of a pet store. Frogs will not drink. They absorb moisture through the humidity of the enclosure and by soaking.

You can use distilled water for spraying/misting the tank ONLY. It's nice to use distilled water because it will not leave hard water spots on the glass. Do not use for soaking water or substrates because it can pull important electrolytes out through the frogs skin.

Humidity:
no less than 50%, no higher than 80%. A perfect range is 70-80%. This can be accomplished by misting the tank 2-3 times a day.

Low humidity can cause dehydration, high can cause respiratory infections and lack of proper oxygen exchange.

Temps:
This species is pretty tolerant to temps. A nice temp range to aim for is low 70's at night and upper 70's during the day.

Food:
Small pinhead crickets, baby Dubia roaches, while very young you can use flightless Hydei fruit flies, small cut earthworm pieces. Be sure all insects are from a clean source and that the worms are chemical and dye/scent free. Babies should be offered food daily. Food should be no larger than the distance between their eyes for easy swallowing and to minimize risk of intestinal impaction. Do not feed mealworms, they can cause impaction.

Do not feed over rocks, loose moss, or anything they can accidentally swallow and choke on or become impacted.

Later when you add substrate for plants, you may want to consider teaching them to bowl feed. You can even start teaching them now if you'd like.

Grey's can be voracious eaters. If they do well for you, you will see .

Supplements: (necessary for good health)

Calcium with vitamin D3- every other day

Multivitamin such as Repashy plus calcium - one day a week, not on the same day as the calcium

Without these supplements they will eventually get sick or develop Metabolic Bone Disease.

Supplements added to feeders by taking a small pinch of the powder and placing it into a cup or baggie. Place your insect in and give it a gentle shake for a light powder coating.

Cover the back and 2 sides of the tank with either paper, a towel or a background. This helps them to feel secure and lessens their stress.

Be sure to have a secure lid on their tank .

Hope this helps a bit more .

[ColleenT]

i am not sure if you have them in a tank with water, but Grays are not good swimmers once they morph. they prefer it moist but not wet. Good luck.

[MissNtuen]

Thank you Heather Im sooooo glad they are grey tree frogs! Im making sure i do everything right this time and I just ordered everything i needed from Josh's frogs. All my others are tads....starting to grow limbs....I'm sure I'll have more questions very soon lol

[Heatheranne]

Ah yes, the water bowl should have water only deep enough to sit in .

Joshsfrogs is a great store.

Please ask if you have any more questions . We'll be here to help.