Q's about darts in general.

[ColleenT]

ok, i am not sure i will ever own them, but i want to learn about them so i can make good decisions.

So as i have been reading, a 20 long tank is too short after substrates, (b/c they jump high?) i thought darts were more terrestrial. so is it that climbing is essential, or are they jumping a lot?

i like the Dendrobates Tinc Azureus(sp?) and i see that i could only have one female in a group, so a pair would probably be best.

do they swim, or do they stay out of the water? I don't know if a large water feature would be useless if they don't like to swim.

Will they hunt, dig for springtails, or are springtails just crawling about on their own?

[Frogman1031]

Hi, i plan to get dart frogs soon and i plan on beginning my build sometime next week. Most dart frogs love climbing, some, like the Arzureus, are more terrestrial, but still enjoy climbing. They usually stay out of the water. Some people dont put water dishes in at all and let the mister and humidity do all the work. Thumbnail darts, like imitators will eat springtails their whole lives. Most larger species like terribilis or auratus or arzureus or leucomelas usually only eat them when they are froglets. They eat fruitflies as adults. They usually dont dig and the springtails are usually their to "clean up" after the frogs and maintain a healthy little ecosystem


The Frog chooses its owner. Treat your life-long friend with respect and care and it will never disappoint!

[awelcome]

I can't offer good advice, but I can share my experience at least. I think different dart species vary. I have a dendrobates tinctorius 'cobalt'. I wouldn't say he jumps around a lot, but he does like to occasionally climb the background a little or climb up onto my broms. I actually have no idea how he gets up there, because it usually happens when I am sleeping and I find him there in the mornings. He mostly likes to roam around on the ground. I don't have springtails in there yet, so can't help you there. I imagine, though, that he would catch them if they came around the top, as opposed to digging around for them.

I also am not the one to give advice on tank size... so stay tuned for the experts on that one. I have a 12x12x18 (which I know is too small, but that's a long story). It has a good amount of vertical space, and I was able to sort of build upwards from the front to the back with substrate and then angle logs/plants/branches to give more space to climb around on. I also just really like the visual appeal of a taller tank though.

Oh, and I do have a water dish, and he does get into it at least once a day typically. I like the idea of things like those monkey pots or whatever they are called or upside down coconut halves with puddles in them for a more natural look though.

[ColleenT]

i guess i'm confused bc i assumed the dart frogs were more of a wanderer, not a hopper, so i figured a lower tank would not bother them. so if i had to choose a taller enclosure vs a larger footprint, the taller is better?

[awelcome]

I have seen plenty of people do wider vs taller for darts. I think it just needs to be a certain height, and hopefully someone can help with what that is.

[Frogman1031]

It all depends on the species. I would say that you should have at least 18 inches of height for a more
terrestrial frog like an Arzureus. A more arboreal species like a leucomelas would defintitley need more height. And remember that a properly layered substrate would take up at least six inches
an 18x18x24 or 24x18x24 is usually sufficient. But again, for some species, the higher the better

[Mentat]

A vivarium with live plants will require either a drainage layer or a false bottom. When all is said and done you will lose around 6 in. of height to top of substrate. Only way a 20L will work is to stand on an end and then you are left with a pretty small bottom area.

Smaller thumbnails like Imi's will climb all over the place and use 24 in. of height (i.e. an ET 18x18x24 in.) easily. Some of the larger darts (i.e. P. terribilis) and Mantellas will stay close to ground; but if you build ledges. branches, etc. they will use them.

Springtail job is to be part of the clean-up crew; but darts will eat them too and they are required to raise the smaller froglets prior to them accepting newly born wingless D. melanogaster.

A water feature will be used by darts. Builders leave them out because they require additional planning; not because the darts will drown in them.

Recommend you read the dart care articles here, they have lots of useful information .

[ColleenT]

so should the height be about 18 inches on top of the 6 inches of substrate? so 24 inches is the minimum for any dart tank?

[Frogman1031]

Pretty much. Although you can "get away" with 18 inches including the substrate for a little while when the frog is still young


The Frog chooses its owner. Treat your life-long friend with respect and care and it will never disappoint!

[MantellaGuy]

Hi there,

I am going to break down more post, just to make it simpler! lol

ok, i am not sure i will ever own them, but i want to learn about them so i can make good decisions.

Firstly, well done Colleen for actually stating this, I find it is increasingly rare for people to stop and think instead of rushing into something!

So as i have been reading, a 20 long tank is too short after substrates, (b/c they jump high?) i thought darts were more terrestrial. so is it that climbing is essential, or are they jumping a lot?

In all honesty, this entirely depends upon which species, out of 298+, you wish to keep and look into. Including;

• Allobates (Family: Aromobatidae)
  
• Andinobates (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Anomaloglossus (Family: Aromobatidae)
• Aromobates (Family: Aromobatidae)
  
• Mannophryne (Family: Aromobatidae)
  
• Rheobates (Family: Aromobatidae)
• Ameerega (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Colostethus (Family: Dendrobatidae)
• Epipedobates (Family Dendrobatidae)
  
• Silverstoneia (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Adelphobates (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Dendrobates (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Excidobates (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Minyobates (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Oophaga (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Phyllobates (Family: Dendrobatidae)
  
• Ranitomeya (Family: Dendrobatidae)
• Hyloxalus (Family: Dendrobatidae)

All of these are indeed from two different Families, however both Aromobatidae and Dendrobatidae are considered Poison Dart Frogs.
To truly understand Poison Dart Frogs, firstly break up their Scientific naming to discover what it means. If you split the Dendrobates into two parts of its Greek translation, Dendron roughly means "Tree" and bateo/bates "I walk/mount", transforming it into roughly "Tree-walker".
Most of the family are incredibly Arboreal, and some of which that I have worked with have never set foot upon the substrate, yes they are technically terrestrial though but this doesn't mean they do not have their preferences though.
Some species, such as Oophaga pumilio are incredibly Arboreal, but then you have some species such as Dendrobates auratus, which are more Terrestrial in behaviour. So as you can see, it varies dramatically!

Height within the Terrarium would be essential and most advantageous to have. However specifications of dimensions cannot really be given without a chosen species.

i like the Dendrobates Tinc Azureus(sp?) and i see that i could only have one female in a group, so a pair would probably be best.

Dendrobates tinctorius azureus (believed to be the founding species of the D.tinctorius species/localities.) is incredibly popular and are fantastic I think to start off with. They do get big though in comparison to some in the family of Dendrobatidae and in all honesty, Trios are the recommended amount that should be kept within the terrarium, to prevent specimens from harrassing and bullying certain individuals. Terratoriality can occur, but mainly between the same genders such as Females on Females, this can be prevented though with ease.

I recommend a 800mm x 400mm x 600mm Terrarium is used, which is okay for a maximum of 3-4 specimens.

do they swim, or do they stay out of the water? I don't know if a large water feature would be useless if they don't like to swim.

They are notourisly bad swimmers, in fact awful to the point where they will actually drown themselves however, this doesnt happen often enough to make it a strong possiblity. People do use Water Features however, they are more of an Aesthetic thing for the owners benefit, not the animals.

Will they hunt, dig for springtails, or are springtails just crawling about on their own?

They are quite opportunistic in their dietary behaviour, and will generally eat when they come across something that is suitable.
This can include the following;

• Tropical Spring-tails (Folsomia candida)
• Tropical Dwarf Woodlice (Trichorina tomentosa)
• Pea Aphids (Acyrthosiphon pisum)
• Lesser Wax Worms (Achroae grisella)
• Newly-hatched Wax Worms (Galleria mellonella)
• Hatchling Black Crickets (Gryllus assimilis)
• Hatchling Banded Crickets (Gryllodes sigillatus)

The Fruit Fly will be a staple dietary item, and should be provided more than anything else. Feeding should occur 3-4 times a week but not everyday though to prevent obesity and promoting natural behavioral patterns.

Anyway, hope this helps you out a bit.

Joshua Ralph
Moderator

[deranged chipmunk]

Lord I was born a rambling man.......

Wow josh, that was seriously informative. I learned a ton from that. Now, I have a question. Aren't some, like ranitomeya, tree dwellers to begin with? I mean, aren't they canopy dwellers who never even see the earth in their lifetime?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[MantellaGuy]

Lord I was born a rambling man.......

Wow josh, that was seriously informative. I learned a ton from that. Now, I have a question. Aren't some, like ranitomeya, tree dwellers to begin with? I mean, aren't they canopy dwellers who never even see the earth in their lifetime?

Haha thank you And indeed, they are some species within Ranitomeya and other genera that do infact remain in the canopies, however out of the 18 genera and 298+ species, its hard to remember which ones have their personal preference :P

[DigitalPunk]

WoW Thanks for the informative post Josh! I learned a bunch from it!

All Darts (as Josh said) are opportunistic hunters. If Springtails are busy munching on a leaf and the darts spot them, they will eat them. Keeping a Dart Vivarium stocked with a health thriving Micro fauna population is key. Not only will the darts feed on them (as sort of a snack) the micro fauna will also consume decaying matter within the vivarium and turn it into nutrients the live plants can then use. A properly setup Vivarium will function like a mini eco system. You simulate rain and day/night cycle and introduce FF on a daily basis, the rest takes care of itself.

You will need to restock Springtails, Isopods, or any other micro fauna you use to keep the population up and thriving (this combats the darts consumption).

As for tank size. As it has been said before by others. The size of the tank will vary depending on the species housed in it. My son housed 2 Azureus in a 20L Horizontal tank for months. We just recently upgraded them to a 40B Horizontal. We reduced the depth of the drainage layer to add a few more inches to the height of the tank, but this will result in more frequent draining of excess water from the tank.

[ColleenT]

to be honest, the biggest thing i am worried about is the vivarium and how to make it right. i know i need to pin point a frog to figure out what is needed, but i do feel overwhelmed by the vivarium. i have also considered Phyllobates Vittatus. but i think i have decided on the Azureus. IF i were to decide to get darts.

[DigitalPunk]

Vivariums can be as easy or complicated as you want them to be. For your first build it is best to keep it simple.

Do a drainage layer (2" deep) with soil (3" deep). Add about 2" of leaf litter, some wood and plants. Go with plants that are easy in your first tank. Things like Pothos (which Azureus love to climb on), Moss, ferns. to name a few.

Don't cheap out on the light, get a good quality LED light. Aquatraders - Guaranteed Best Prices on Aquarium Lightings + Free Shipping! has some of the best pricing. If you don't know which one to get ask and we will help!

Get a basic glass aquarium thermometer for temp readings, get a Digital ExoTerra Hydrometer (this will be critical while you learn how your tank holds in humidity.

Get the tank setup for 15 - 30 days before you buy frogs.

Order some FF cultures in advance of the frogs and practice setting up cultures and practice shaking some flies out into a cup to feed from. FF are not hard, but take a few tries to get the hang of it. I have a video up on my youtube channel that covers creating FF cultures and feeding them to your frogs.

Ask all the questions you have, We are all here to help each other, learn from each other, and support each other.

Paul

[ColleenT]

will the plants be ok with LED lighting?

[DigitalPunk]

Absolutely. As long as the lighting is at 6500K color temp plants will thrive. I have LED lighting on nearly all my tanks now and the plants are going CRAZY.

[ColleenT]

next question- if i do a vivarium with Leca instead of a false bottom, how long can the vivarium last without me having to tear it down?

[Frogman1031]

If you do a water feature, leca is not an option. Only a false bottom will work. If there is no water feature leca will be fine

[deranged chipmunk]

If you do a water feature, leca is not an option. Only a false bottom will work. If there is no water feature leca will be fine

Not true actually. My member's choice palu was a drainage layer tank. You just need to have a taller drainage layer.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela