Tank of Death?

[CalculatingFrog]

Back in October, I was gifted a baby Pacman. I never wanted one, but friends knew I loved frogs and so ... Percy did not do well. In 5 months I never saw him eat and only once or twice saw him try to catch crickets. He always buried himself deeply in the soil. I dug him up regularly to encourage eating ( and see if he was still alive) until one weekend I found a skelteon. I had done lots of research on substrate, lighting, and temps, so I didn't think those were at fault.

I bought a baby Pac and tried a whole new set-up. No burying soil, small heat pad under large water dish, moss and wood hiding structures. Percy the second seemed happy, actively explored, and chased tiny crickets for his first three days. I was excited. Fed him one morning and he jumped out of his dish chasing a cricket. 5 hours later, when I went to mist, he was dead. ?!?.?!!?!

I am devastated. My partner says it is the Tank of Death and I should never keep any more frogs in there. My four WTFs are healthy and active nextdoor. My veiled cham is also thriving. So, it isn't that I am a complete idiot. However, I realy want to understand what I did wrong. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Lija]

Hi and welcome to the frog forum!

There are a lots of thing that could have gone wrong here. We can try to point what was up or leave it be and set you up correctly from a start

check this article to start with Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! I'm very sorry your two frogs died . Was wondering if that tank was used before and what did you cleaned it with? Also, what size is the tank and how long (snout to vent) where the frogs?

Pacmans should be kept in shredded coco (around same depth as frog height) mixed with dechlorinated tap water until slightly damp and it clumps in fist without dripping water out. Moss is a no-no because it's an impaction hazard. Heat sources like pads should be attached to sides; never to bottom since frogs will dig down to cool.

Please answer the below questions to try and narrow down the cause of death. Also; here is a good care guide for them: Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding .

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”

The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
16. How old is the frog
17. How long have you owned him/her
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
20. How often the frog is handled
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[CalculatingFrog]

Hi and welcome to the frog forum!

There are a lots of thing that could have gone wrong here. We can try to point what was up or leave it be and set you up correctly from a start

check this article to start with Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding

I actually used that article and another Pacman care sheet to set it up! I had a 20 gallon for my bsbt Pac. EcoEarth substrate, shallow water soaker. Kept temp at 75 and musted twice daily to get 65%-75% humidity. Fake vines provided shade. UTH put on the side, not under the tank. Fed him crickets that were gut-loaded with apples and carrots. Shook them in the powdered vitamins and minerals 2x week. Do you see ant glaring mistakes? I did stop the daytime heat lamp when I read that sometimes they hide all tne time if there is too much light. Temp was good though. He stayed compketely underground all the time except when I dug him up each weekend.

[Lija]

Yes.
-Tank is way too big for a baby = he will be stressed out and not eating.
- temp is too low, you want 78 for the night, 80-82-day.
- humidity you dont want to go lower then 70
- moss you mentioned may have been a problem too.
- substrate may have been too deep.

[DVirginiana]

What kind of thermometer were you using to measure temp/where were you measuring it at? The cageside thermometers they sell at Petsmart are really inaccurate and in my experience tend to measure higher than the actual temp. Unless you have a spaceheater or something in the room, my guess is that it was actually cooler in most parts of the tank than it was reading; I've never been able to get tropical temps right with just a heatpad.

Also, what type water were you using to expand the cocofiber? I've got a WTF as well, but he spends so little time actually on the ground that it probably wouldn't even phase him if we used pool water to expand his bedding. Since pacs burrow they're a lot more sensitive to whatever you use on the substrate.

[GrifTheGreat]

Post pictures of the setup.

Tank was to large as was already stated.

Babies are very sensitive and can be fine one minute and gone the next. Everyone has asked very important questions. Please answer them so this can be figured out. I will recomend next time use a medium reptile carrier with a Hermit Crab heat pad on the side. Cover the vented lid with plastic wrap except the door on the top and the vents on the ends. This size will help you successfully rear a baby.

They can be difficult if conditions are not correct and many problems could have been happening at once. How large were the crickets?