Please help! Whites tree frog problems

[LilyPad]

It's post #1 in this sticky, Carlos - http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html

It needs to be updated so that post #20 is #1. I've made the mistake before myself.

[Reptibian]

1. 18"x18"x24"
2. One other whites tree frog (his sister and she is about 1/3 bigger than him)
3. Humidity when misted is about 75%, I allow to drop down to 23% or so (no lower than 20%) avg would be about 30-40%.
4. Around 71-74 during day, and 69-70 at night (have a red night heat light).
5. Live in country so I use our well water as there is no chlorine.
6. Eco carpet on 2/3 and terrarium beaked moss on 1/3 (the part over the heat pad.
7. 3 artificial suction plants on sides, one artificial vine, artificial decorated molded plastic tree thing in center of terrarium, real wood tunnel hide from store, ceramic stone looking large water dish (it's soo heavy for its size lol). Everything was washed with water extensively and is every month when I do a full tank cleaning.
8. Large crickets (some medium sized ones here and there), I put 4-5 in the terrarium every other night.
9. Gut load cricket drink with calcium in crickets cage, some cool calcium supplement spray (basically an easier to use form of calcium powder) I use on the crickets right before I put them in the cage to be hopefully be eaten.
10. Either a zilla day white light 50 watts or zoomed 60 watt basking thing which lasts much longer than the zilla.
11. The day light during the day and a zoomed nocturnal infared heat lamp 50 watts at night. Also have a heat pad on 24/7 which I unplug if the ground temp gets above 90 some so it can cool down.
12. Last time I saw was about a week or 2 ago. He doesn't seem too skinny though (could he be bloated?).
13. 2 nights ago there was a small poo no large than a medium cricket (that is when I had picked up his sister to move her because she eats anything that moves and then I picked him up and felt how fragile and sick he felt).
14. Picture in thumbnail, he is the one on the left and his bigger sister is on the right, I took one of the terrarium but the forum didn't upload it.
15. His underside is a nice bright white so I'm happy that he most likely doesn't have red leg again (he had it when he was 1, I took him to vet and they prescribed some shots and he got better in a few weeks), but now he is always in the same exact spot whenever I check on him even at midnight! He tucks his head in when a crickets walks up to him a bumps into him, the most I have seen him do to gets cricket recently is open his mouth but stay in the same spot, his underside does feel much more mushy than his sisters, and when I picked him up his front toes were curled and his back toes were together instead of apart and he tucked his back legs under him so he sat on them. His face is always in the sleepy "mode" (where he doesn't look like he is smiling his mouth is only slightly curved and his front legs aren't ever "praying" like his sisters they are father apart and his he rests on them. His breathing seems to be slower too.
16. He is 2 years 10 months and 1 day if he was in fact 3 months when I bought him and his sister.
17. 2 years 7 months and 1 day.
18. Captive bred I hope (got them both from Petco).
19. Large crickets (some medium sized ones here and there), I put 4-5 in the terrarium every other night. For either their 1st or 2nd birthday I tried to give then super worms or meal worms (I remember the worms things had voting head and were thin) and they spit them out (I had cut off the heads so they couldn't bite and gross white substance leaked out which I what I think the frogs didn't like).
20. Only handled if in way of water changes, open door fully, cleaning up poop, or when doing a full change cleaning (changing setup etc.).
21. Low traffic- my room which only occasionally my family goes into and which I go into all the time. The terrariums are next to door so I have to be careful walking in not to bump them.
22. Water changes every night, heavy misting morning and night and occasionally during daytime if humidity is low, spit clean poop whenever I see some, full cleaning once a month.

[Lija]

Thanks Carlos


a few things to point here, and im sorry it is not complete list of things to be done, people please add more but im not liking it

humidity - way, way too low, you gotta fix it.
Supplements - not enough. You have to use supplements properly, not just Ca spray, but ca/vit d3 and multivitamins. Both in powder form.
water- even for well water you have to use water conditioner.

Have you ever done fecal tests for them?


I'd start with reptiboost ( dusted on crickets every feeding) and 20 min honey bath ( water level no higher then frogs chin, warm water, few drops of honey), followed with 20 min electrolyte bath( same level of water, 1 part of unflavoured pedialyte, 5 parts of water. Do it everyday for a few days, i very strongly suggest to do fecal test too.

All water has to be conditioned! You need to do electrolyte bath for his sister too and feed her reptiboost dusted crickets too.

[Reptibian]

Humidity- I remember hearing that whites tree frogs are able to get teapot pry and fungal problems in 40-50% constant humidities. You are the expert though so please tell me what the right humidity range should be.
Supplements- I have a powder called ReptoLife plus.which is multivitamins and I have a powder called ReptoCal which is calcium and D3. Should I use those every feeding time?
Water- how much water conditioner do I have to use each time and what brand do I get?

What is repti boost? Where can I get it? For a fecal test do you mean bring it to a doctor?

[Reptibian]

Where can I find unflavored pedialyte? As for conditioning the water I have well water which has no chlorine and they have been using it for almost 3 years with no issues. What is in the water that is harmful?

[deranged chipmunk]

i'm actually bit curious if the frogs have been kept at that humidity for almost 3 years? would seem to me that a lack of humidity would have caused problems much sooner than this. and if he hasn't been soaking, i wonder why not. you said his rear legs don't feel like they have any strength, have you noticed if they twitched at all? i definitely agree with Lija, powders are so much more reliable than the sprays. definitely give electrolyte baths, and i would qt him asap, and keep a close eye on his sister.

as far as humidity, i kept my white's in 76-80% humidity without any issues. that's the higher end of the spectrum for them, but 50-60% is what most people recommend.

[CatherineM]

The range of White Tree Frogs in Australia, contain areas both high and low in humidity.

http://sleamanspace.wikispaces.com/f...a_caerulea.gif

[Bombina Bob]

From what i see in your picture of the whites, the substrate is carpet? Carpet can be very
abrasive to amphibians and is suited best for reptiles. I suggest if you can, use a substrate that
can hold humidity better.

[Reptibian]

I used their night time heat lamp with their day time lamp to raise the temperature but put them both on one side of the enclosure. After a little bit he moved to the cooler end (his sister was already their). So I don't think that the temperature is too low.