My "build"

[awelcome]

And I say "build" because there isn't much building involved, and I will be keeping it rather simple for my first go. I am using a 12x12x18 Zoomed tank, and I will be housing 1 cobalt tinc in this viv.

I have another post that I have already gotten some very helpful information on, but I figured I would start one to help guide me through this over the next couple days as I figure out what to do, and get it started. Let's start with a list of the things I have purchased and planned to use....

• Josh's Frogs complete kit for the drainage layer, barrier, substrate, moss, and leaf litter
• branch from Josh's Frogs (manzanita)
• Exo Terra rock foam background (this is questionable, after getting advice against it, but I want to see what I think before I decide for sure)
• Exo Terra Small Jungle Vine (plan is to wrap it back and forth a little for climbing on since I am using such a small space I am trying to give a bit of vertical space)
• Flukers Fake Purple Coleus vines.... I know most don't mix fake with real, but I am going to try I think, and my intent is for this to decorate the top more.
• A second fake bush I have in her current enclosure if I need to beef it out a little for shade/hiding especially if I leave out the second bromeliad
• glass thermo (and I still have the exo terra dual analog thermo/hygro I might use until I either figure out a better hygro or feel more secure in just knowing it's humid enough
• small water dish
• turtle log type thing, I currently have propped up she hangs out behind/under at night
• rock(s) (boiled lol)
• Hood with UVB (13 watt) light (already on top)
• Josh's Frogs plant kit (geared for dart frog 12x12x18 enclosure, but as mentioned I am a bit unsure of one of the plants... there are 6)
  2 bromeliad, 1 purple one with soft edges and a green one with spines
  1 fern
  1 creeping type plant
  1 called syngonium 'confetti' they suggest for background
  1 alternanthera 'burgundy thread'

and I think that's it.... I may not use all, it will depend on how it goes. I have a simple idea in mind, but am not great at visualizing.


First question.... bromeliads (or any epiphytes really). I have at least one, maybe two if I decide to go ahead and put that spiny one in (still very uneasy about this). If I DON'T end up using the exo terra background and opt for something like a cling as suggested on the outside, how do I plant it in there? I currently have it sitting in a cup of coco fiber until Saturday when I hope to start... is that already harming it since it's an air plant (something I learned after I did it lol). Can it even be planted in the substrate in the viv? I looked up ways, and everything mentions putting it on background, in logs, etc.

Thanks for all the help, I seriously appreciate your patience with what you probably hear over and over. I am a perfectionist, so having no control or idea what I am doing is causing me uber amounts of stress, and I am just afraid about really messing something up..... but a part of me knows it will probably be fine even if I don't do something perfect. It's just hard to relax about it.

[awelcome]

Ok... so regarding the exo terra background.... I REALLY want to try it. I know many of you advise against it, but I just can't help myself lol. I bought an 18x18 sheet, and glad I did! Measured, it's 17x17. So the 12x18 would have likely left gaps only adding to the FF issue. Further, it has those gaps for the cords to hide behind, which I imagine is another source of the issue.... so I cut those off flush and made the back as flat as I possibly could.... talk about a back ache! There are also notches out of one end for the cords to come out the bottom... I am actually thinking about turning it on it's side and using that side to do my trim to fit the tank. I am going to cut slightly large and try to really wedge it in there, and maybe block off the top with some moss or something to even further discourage the FF's..... I am sure some will find their way back there. It's a given, but I hope to minimize it at least. Luckily for me my frog already knows when feeding time is and comes out of hiding, waits for me to dump them in and goes to town so not many spread very far anyway.

Like I said, I appreciate the advice you all give, and I know you said not to use it, but I might try once I see how it fits in there. Please don't take that to mean I don't value you opinions/help and please keep helping me rofl.

[DigitalPunk]

The Broms you will wan to pin to the back ground or tie to the vine. Wrap the bad in some sphagnum moss (or any moss really). Most broms will rot if planted in soil, but doing it for a short period of time shouldn't do any permanent damage. The broom with the "spiny edges" will be fine. Frogs in the wild deal with them all the time, it is sort of engrained in them on a genetic level. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

I just really dislike the Exo backgrounds, but You sound like you are going to make it as insect proof as possible. No harm in giving it a try

Between the 2 brooms and the rest of the plants I don't think you need to worry with any of the fake plants you have. Over time the live plants will grow in and consume the tank. Most Vivariums are fairly open to start with until all the plants grown in. Then carefully pruning helps shape the tank and provide the frog with a very intricate environment.

Using both the digital and glass thermometer isn't a bad idea at all. To bad there isn't a glass hydrometer lol. I had 2 digital Hydro + Therms in a couple my tanks for a little while because I didn't trust them. Thanks to time to get use to knowing when a tank needs to be misted and Lynn for pointing out I was totally missing glass therms as a option I am slowly fazing my $20 a pop exo terr Hydro+Therms out lol.

One step most people miss when adding in the soil for the first time is to soak it really good before adding it. It will help reduce any dust and start you off with a good base for humidity.

Good luck!

[awelcome]

Thanks. I think once the real plants start to grow in I may just pull out the couple fake ones if I decide to put them in. I agree... a glass hygro would be GREAT! So far my glass thermo matches up with the analog one but for some reason that only makes me question it's accuracy too lol. My hygro is set up on a rock to lift it off the moss where I did have it (because I didn't want to attach it too soon before I knew where I wanted it) because I realized it was throwing off my readings a bit from when I lifted it off that. I think it's closer, but I still question the 90% humidity claim.... some days I don't even have to mist (though I usually end up doing it anyway because I am distrustful). I don't know, it just doesn't feel humid in there when I put my hand in. The temp thing I set up seems way more humid (I actually need to monitor that again tomorrow to make sure I have it right) and gets condensation and when I put my hand in feels humid. I have it sealed off as well as I can though.... and she seems to be ok, so hopefully even if it's not truly 90% it's adequate.

oh and I planned to dump the ABG in a container and mix it up while getting it wet before putting it in.

[awelcome]

what's the best way to pin the broms to the background? Or to a vine?

[awelcome]

thought of another question... how big will the broms get? Or how do I keep them from getting TOO big (like how to prune them.... I am admittedly a gardening noob... and have a hard time on my landscaping as it is lol). I want to make sure I don't put them up like too high or something if they get super big.

[deranged chipmunk]

What? You seem like you got things covered pretty well


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[DigitalPunk]

Pa lease lol. When it comes to plants I just repeat what I remember reading from you

[deranged chipmunk]

That's all you need lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

You can trim broms. It's similar to trimming ferns. Just trim off the outer leaves (or fronds on ferns). I'm not a big fan of broms, so I don't normally offer advice on them. But do be aware that most neos will grow to about 12" in diameter. And they will throw pups (which you can always sell off). My thought on the spiny ones is that they would be ok. I think I even said it another thread that we need to trust 400 million years of evolution. But it comes down to what you feel comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable putting the brom in there, don't. Remember, you can always take it out later on down the road.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

Oh, one thing I want to mention about broms. I do not wrap their roots in sphagnum. I leave them free. They are for attaching themselves to objects, they don't supply the plant with nutrients. Wrapping them just makes it take longer for the brom to attach itself to whatever you mount it to. The plant will get all it's nutrients from the water reservoir in the center of the brom.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[awelcome]

Thanks so much, both of you, for the great advice. It's starting to become clearer to me what I need to do, which lowers the stress lol. When I was reading up on broms (I don't know if it was exact type but I think I thought it looked close to what I had and I think I saw it on JF) it said something about not allowing standing water on the leaves... why is that? And something about flushing it out every few days or something?

If I use wire to attach to background, how does it stay? Do I need to somehow twist tie it in back? One method I read was to use two toothpicks at an X and to use the moss around it which I assumed was partially for the toothpicks to have something to hold in place. They seem heavy enough to just pull a wire right out if it wasn't attached somehow in back.

Also, I thought of anothe bug proofing measure for the background, but need some help figuring how to do it. I thought about taking some of the extra barrier I will have and putting that at the top, but not sure how best to attach it.

[deranged chipmunk]

No standing water on a brom leaf, what??? You gotta link me to that article.

I've also heard that you shouldn't allow begonia or violet leaves have standing water on them, but my violets are constantly wet and never had an issue. Begonias can go either way though.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[DigitalPunk]

Flushing the brom is as simple as spraying water down into the cnet and letting it fill up and overflow for a few seconds. It just helps replace the stale water that has been sitting down inside it.

Ohh nice bill I though they got SOME nutrients from the root. Thanks! I guess I should clarify. When I say "Wrap the roots" I mean I just lay sphagnum over them to fide the wires. I don't physically wrap them in the sphagnum. I do it mainly to hide the flora wire and make the tank look prettier while the broom attaches itself to the surround hardscape.

Never heard of not having standing water on the bromeliad leaves.... My broms stay wet nearly 24/7 and are doing fine.

[awelcome]

I read SO many articles yesterday, but let me see if I can find it.

Still wondering how to attach with the wire properly? Do you think floral wire could also hold the barrier to the foam? It wouldn't have to be really sturdy, maybe I could pierce into it like a staple type thing?

[awelcome]

ok, here is where I read it.... maybe it's just this specific variety. I don't even know if this is the one I have, it just looked the closest that I could tell.

Neoregelia maculata | Josh's Frogs

[deranged chipmunk]

Ya know what? I think they have that sentence on the description of every plant they sell on the site lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

I read SO many articles yesterday, but let me see if I can find it.

Still wondering how to attach with the wire properly? Do you think floral wire could also hold the barrier to the foam? It wouldn't have to be really sturdy, maybe I could pierce into it like a staple type thing?

We really need to see a pic of the background you bought.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[awelcome]

sure, here it is. It's not the intended direction, but it's the direction I am going with. I will be trimming it from the right side with the notches about 5 inches. And remember the back used to have grooves for cords, but it is now flat.

[DigitalPunk]

very creative! I don't think you will have any issues with insects congregating behind it. Crickets and fruit flies find the craziest places to hid from the frogs. I keep a wad of Sphagnum near the top of the tank. After a few hours all the uneaten fruit flies have climbed up to it. I then shake it into a bowl and re-dust the flies and drop them back in the bottom of the tank. The circle of life? lol The not so smart flies jump into the water section and the army of springtails that hang out in the water pounce on them