New and hoping for reassurance

[awelcome]

Sorry this is a bit of a long story.....

My kids are allergic to pet dander, and so after wanting a pet for such a long time we decided to get a frog. We went to a local PetCo and looked around, and I asked the employees some questions... they claimed to be knowledgeable and I believed them. Normally I would do all the research beforehand, but because of timing and a great sale going on (and because I believed their advice) we pretty much impulse purchased. We were instructed to get the following things.... Zoomed 12x12x18 tank (this came with coco substrate and moss). heat pad, hood and UVB light, water dish (she said as big as we could get which I now know is silly), a log type thing to hide under, and a couple silk plants (I had to order live so they would do for the time)... oh and flightless fruit flies. We also got the frog that same day..... yeah I know stupid. So I rushed home and set things up (which is quite bare) and put our frog in. Luckily it seems to be doing ok, but I quickly realized while researching things more thoroughly that we did not have an ideal set-up. Having already put so much into the tank and whatnot, I can't really convince DH to let me run out and buy a new tank so I am hoping to just optimize the situation... at least for now.

First things first, I went out and bought a thermometer/hygrometer because they never even mentioned that.... it's an analog one and I see they have bad rep. I am already looking into getting a glass therm or two to put in there as I have seen suggested on here but not sure what to do for reliable hygrometer. I also put glass over the top vent to trap humidity as best I can, but I need to cut a piece to fit it better. I also bought vitamins. And being that it's summer... I have turned OFF the heating pad and will only use it as necessary in cooler months since it's already attached to my bottom tank (she even suggested I put it INSIDE the tank under the substrate which seems off based on everything I read now).

Now for trying to fix the enclosure as best I can.... I ended up ordering a substrate/drainage/barrier/moss/leaves kit from Josh's frogs for this size enclosure, plant package for the size, and a few other things. I was going to get springtails as well, but DH was already griping at the money I spent so I am hoping I can add those in a little later perhaps. My plan is to try to build somewhat upwards in at least one back corner to give more space, and to put some vines around (kind of lower and back and forth) for even more (my frog seems to like to climb the glass). When I do the new set-up I have a temp set-up in a trifle bowl (never used lol) that I am going to monitor the next few days to make sure she can sit in it for a while, but assuming I can do it all in a couple hours at most.

Oh gee... I haven't even mentioned my frog yet rofl... we have a cobalt arrow frog (which from what I can tell unfortunately is somewhat larger than other species further adding to my space issue I know). We only have the one, and my HOPE is that with proper thought and care to how I set it up he or she (we still aren't sure but I think she) can be happy in this enclosure. We've had her a few days now and she doesn't hide all day or anything and moves around, eats and all that, but I do think she'd benefit from more "stuff" in there to hide under, climb on, etc. Oh I also bought a foam background like from ExoTERRA and I am hoping it won't take too much space from the back... but also thinking maybe I can trim it thinner if need be? Please tell me this will all be ok... I have been seriously stressing out.

Thanks

[DigitalPunk]

Pictures of your tank will help us a login helping you get things setup as best you can with what you have.

That size of tank isn't bad for one frog, and you might be able to do 2 in it if it is setup properly, but you won't want to do more than 2.

Here is a care sheet for your frogs. (I hate linking to places other than this forum, but I can't find a care sheet here for them.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/car...us-novice.html

Read through it and it will help you tweak the layout of the tank for your new little friend.


It is frustrating when pet stores do this sort of injustice to new frog owners. I am sure she/he was just doing as they were trained, but man it makes my blood boil.

[awelcome]

I have ordered stuff, that should be here by the weekend... I will definitely take pics as I start to set it up to get advice if I need to tweak anything. As it is now, it's seriously super open so it won't be very helpful since I plan to put more into it. I am just going to try to be very aware of leaving some space in front to move around as well as trying to add some vertical space. She likes climbing on the propped up log I have in there, and the plants so I hope that will suit her. Thanks for the reassurance that it will be ok for one frog at least. Maybe someday, when DH forgets about the money spent on this one I can upgrade lol. I have read multiple care sheets for this frog, but thanks for the link and I will go check that one out too.

[awelcome]

ok hopefully I am posting some pics.... like I said it's bare now, and I plan to add stuff. So first pic is a overall view... she's out jumping around on and off through day, and then at night goes under/behind log. She does go into the water dish from time to time, but I hear a lot of people don't use them. If I have space I plan to keep it in the rebuild. I also know the thermo/hygro shouldn't be sitting on the ground, but I didn't want to permanently attach it just yet since I planned to rebuild. It does read about 72 degrees right now and around 90 humidity (but I am distrustful of the accuracy both because they have bad reviews and being on the ground where I did mist earlier). And one shot of our little girl.... I think anyway lol.

[awelcome]

do you think I would be able to trim the foam background thinner? I already bought it, so I would like it to work if possible. How big of an issue is the FF hiding behind it? They all seem to go straight for the water now lol... and a lot of them are escaping into my house.... not thrilled about that.

[DigitalPunk]

If you think of the current tank as a Quarantine tank than it is perfect

The more elaborate realistic setups are for the viewing pleasure of us humans. The frogs really only care if their basic needs are met

[awelcome]

lol. That's good to hear, but hopefully I can find a happy medium between a nice full vivarium like I imagine and leaving space... but not as much as there is now lol.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF ! Sorry about your crash landing into the frog pet world; the employees at Petco did a good number confusing you . Our article section has a few on Darts that will help care for your frog: Frog Forum - Care Articles. Myself would remove that ExoTerra background since it takes space out and offers FF a place to hide. Instead you can attach an aquarium background or any other paper you want outside. You will probably never need a heat mat for darts at normal human room temps. As a matter of fact, the opposite is what you have to watch for and try to keep their temp. around 75F and never let it get to 80F and above. Hope this helps and good luck !

[deranged chipmunk]

Just apply a nice amount of silicone to the background and put some heavy weights on it for a few days. Run your finger around the edges to form a smooth bead, like you would is you were caulking a tub, and that will seal it fine. No worries about fruit flies getting back there.

Do you have a temp home for your frog while you do the rebuild. Like I mentioned, just attaching the background will take a few days and the frog won't be able to stay in there. A plastic shoebox from the dollar store will work as a temp qt tank for it. Just drill some holes for air and line it with non patterned paper towels. Add in the water dish and a few plants to hide in and you're good to go while you build. Don't forget to mist daily.

As far as the water dish, some people use them, some don't because darts will absorb their moisture from the humidity in the air more so than soak in a water bowl, like a tree frog.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[awelcome]

I am not sure I have a good enough solution for a temp home that can last for too many days.... I am working on setting something up (as mentioned above it's a trifle bowl that I put dirt and moss in and a small dish of water and I capped it with a tupperware lid to trap humidity, but I could possibly drill a couple small holes for air into that.... of course the FF might become an issue lol. I partially chose a foam background because it wouldn't need the silicone (watched Josh's frogs put one in on a vivarium set-up video) because I knew it would take days to air out properly and dry. I bought a piece bigger than my tank, and then I was going to trim it to size so it fit really tightly... I will get a shot of the temp enclosure though to show you and maybe you guys can let me know if it would hold up to the time required. I am testing the temps/humidity in it now.... brb

[awelcome]

Ok, so here is what I am working with....

The thermo/hygro is reading pretty much exactly where it was in the other enclosure, but of course that could mean it's just broken I suppose (I am seriously distrustful now). I struggled to find something as a water dish that was small enough to leave actual space in there, so what you see is half an easter egg.... burried into the dirt/moss. Would that work? Or do I need to figure something else out? I will also include a pic of the lid... like I said, I could probably put some holes into it for air since that would be only source, but wouldn't want too many to keep the humidity up right?

How long do you think this set-up could keep her happy and healthy if I do end up having to put silicone in?

also... it's plastic, not sure if that matters.

[deranged chipmunk]

That would work. We even had somebody build them a permanent home in something similar. But they were thumbnails. You only need a couple holes for air. Nothing huge.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[awelcome]

do you think that water dish will be ok, or should I look for something a little larger? Also I have a few fake plants around the house I thought about taking some leaves from, how would I go about disinfecting them first so I could throw them in there? As for the holes... is there a particular location on the lid (like inside or outsides) that would be a better spot to make the holes to allow circulation properly without lowering humidity..... maybe that's not an issue, but I figured I'd ask since it's beyond my knowledge lol. I would still prefer not to do silicone, but we'll see. Can I just get the silicone at any pet supply store? It would be in Fish section right?

[deranged chipmunk]

The water dish will be fine. Boil any fake leaves for a minimum of 30 minutes. I would probably poke a few holes around the perimeter of the lid. You can get silicone at Home Depot or lowes or Walmart. Get GE silicone I or II. windows and doors. Do NOT get the bath and tub version, it has mold inhibitors that can leech out and be toxic.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[awelcome]

ok, thanks. I will see how it looks when it arrives, if it's even going to be practical in my tank (the background) and then decide from there if I will go ahead and silicone it.

Has anyone else had issues with FF getting OUT? I am fairly certain they are coming out of the screen at top, and I have half covered by the hood (which allows them to come out the back if they want) and the other half has an actual cover of glass over it. Other than that I can only imagine they are coming through the front vents, or the sides of that front door where there is a small gap for the door to swing out. I hate finding them in my carpet and have killed at least 5 just today, and I am more worried about a larger infestation if they get out and start laying eggs!

[awelcome]

so as I feared having to set the thermo/hygro on the moss like that might have been giving me pretty false readings.... naturally being moist it read cooler than I think it really was, and probably messed up humidity too. Anyway, while she's hiding under her log I decided to put it on there for a more vented spot to read from and it went up to almost 80... so I turned the A/C on since it is getting a little warm in here today. My question is... since I don't want to mount it on the glass yet until I have the build done, and since I will also need to place it in the temp tank during that time to keep an eye on things, can I put something like a rock in there or something to prop it on and get a pretty accurate reading.... as accurate as these things are anyway?

[Mentat]

...Has anyone else had issues with FF getting OUT? I am fairly certain they are coming out of the screen at top, and I have half covered by the hood (which allows them to come out the back if they want) and the other half has an actual cover of glass over it. Other than that I can only imagine they are coming through the front vents, or the sides of that front door where there is a small gap for the door to swing out...

Well, what you wrote here tells me that humidity gauge is not reading right. The whole top has to either be removed and a pane of glass used in it's place, or you can temporarily cover the whole thing (including vents in back) with kitchen plastic wrap (or similar plastic) using tape to attach it to screen top edges. Do not worry about ventilation, the air exchange will happen through the vents below door and along door gaps. There is no way you have the proper constant humidity in there with screen top being covered by light hood. Also, do not turn that light on until you are positive of temperature inside the enclosure. Anything above 80F could harm your frog.

[deranged chipmunk]

There's real no way to make those style vivs fruit fly proof. They won't live long out of the culture, so no worried about infestation. They need the food in the culture to survive. If you find too many are escaping, just cut back on the amount you feed, or feed in a glass bowl. Once they are dusted, they don't climb so well.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[awelcome]

and if I can use a rock.... see above question... can I boil it? I know how to make all sorts of food lol, but I don't know much about boiling other things.

[deranged chipmunk]

Propping it up on a rock or on top of the hide would be much better than on the floor. As far as a thermometer goes, you just can't beat those cheapo glass aquarium thermometers that are like a buck or two at the pet store.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela