Red Eye Tree Frog question

[SethD]

I doubt there will be scaring at all from the looks of things. It looks like shallow though extensive rubbing that didn't even go through the skin. Something that would heal up completely in a few months max assuming they do ok. If there is no "meat" showing in the wounds it is a pretty sure thing that it will not leave visible scarring if the frog lives. They look a little battered, which is not uncommon for wc frogs, but they don't look terrible. If they eat they will probably be ok.

[crhoads18]

The frogs came from Louisville KY, I am in Manchester TN. The seller stated that he was not the first person to own these frogs. He said:

"The RETF I have had for a few months now & they are all doing very well.....they were very skinny when I got them (pretty much rescued) them from their previous owner.....I am not sure if they are CB or WC though. Again, they are all in good condition and honestly represented."

Basically I'd like to know:

1. Is there any possible way this could have happened during shipping?

2. I've seen some people say these will heal given time, but they look like old wounds (healed) to me. Is there anyway to know the age of the wounds?

3. Should I medicate? (Again my initial impression was that these were scars)

**EDIT** I am trying to give the seller the benefit of the doubt.

[Paul Rust]

I would certainly treat with Panacur using the dusting method.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...first-aid.html
Ask him to replace the dead frog, if he won't then reveal his identity here. I would be thankful that any are still alive and buy from Josh's Frogs, Alpha Pro Breeders or Brooklyn Dart frogs from now on. They will deliver 1st rate animals and guarantee them. Every frog I have ever received from Josh has been in excellent condition and as a matter of fact the first frog I ever bought was a yellow Galac that he sold me and he is still going strong and healthy. Stay away from shady dealers on kingsnake and fauna. I'm sorry this happenned to you and I hope people will learn something from it.

[crhoads18]

I would certainly treat with Panacur using the dusting method.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...first-aid.html
Ask him to replace the dead frog, if he won't then reveal his identity here. I would be thankful that any are still alive and buy from Josh's Frogs, Alpha Pro Breeders or Brooklyn Dart frogs from now on. They will deliver 1st rate animals and guarantee them. Every frog I have ever received from Josh has been in excellent condition and as a matter of fact the first frog I ever bought was a yellow Galac that he sold me and he is still going strong and healthy. Stay away from shady dealers on kingsnake and fauna. I'm sorry this happenned to you and I hope people will learn something from it.

I was already planning on treating for parasites, I was looking for opinions on medicating the wounds. The guy isn't what I would call shady, he had several positive reviews and at the time I thought the price was right. Thanks for all the help everyone.

[Kurt]

I don't think there is a need to treat any wounds, none appear serious.

[crhoads18]

I wrote the seller, and here is what he wrote back:
"I appreciate you contacting me. First off, let apologize for the DOA. If the DOA occurred within my terms of live arrival guarantee, I'll be more than happy to issue whatever you think is a fair refund.

1. Were the temperatures at your location between 50-80F? I clearly state in my ads that if temps are outside of that range on the day of delivery, the live arrival guarantee is void.

2. Were you home at the time of the package delivery?

I would also need to see the photographs you have of the DOA frog......now, as to the other frogs being scarred up, that is simply not the case. Those frogs were in perfect health when I shipped them and had absolutely zero scars. They had been in my care for several months and both my girlfriend AND the person I purchased them from can verify this. I also have pictures of the frogs to verify their health and good condition.

Stress is an unavoidable factor when shipping live animals, and I'm sure you're aware of this. Just provide me the proper info and evidence and I'll make sure you're taken care of. Thanks!"

[crhoads18]

I wrote him back and this is his reply (The temps were in the Upper 70's, and his ad never stated temp conditions):

Hey, every website that I have pulled up has said the highs were in the mid-upper 80s in your area.....in fact, according to weather.com, there is not a single day in the 10 that dips below 85.

You will be hard pressed to find a seller/dealer that will guarantee live arrival on ANY amphibians ANY time, no matter the conditions....let alone in summer. Your claim of less-than-stellar packing is pretty laughable considering I packed those frogs in a styrofoam insulated box with moist paper towels and every other care taken to ensure their safe arrival. I can count on ONE hand the # of DOAs I have had in the last 10 years....and every single one of them were due to shipping delays or mishandling of the boxes.....but I still made good on my LA guarantee.

Here is a picture of those frogs that was taken prior to shipping.....notice the lack of scars....the pictures you show me now are not the same frogs, I am sorry buddy.







Despite my better judgement and what I know to be right, I will issue your refund of <amount>. But please do not reply to any of my future for sale ads....I am not petty enough to fight over <amount>. If you feel the need to attempt to lie & fabricate problems where they do not exist for such a low sum of money, then you obviously need it more than I do.

I don't care where you post your pictures.....those are not the frogs I sent you and we both know it. Also, we both know the temps in your area were higher than 80......but you'll get your refund regardless. But you won't be receiving any more of animals.

[kellie]

I would certainly treat with Panacur using the dusting method.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...first-aid.html
Ask him to replace the dead frog, if he won't then reveal his identity here. I would be thankful that any are still alive and buy from Josh's Frogs, Alpha Pro Breeders or Brooklyn Dart frogs from now on. They will deliver 1st rate animals and guarantee them. Every frog I have ever received from Josh has been in excellent condition and as a matter of fact the first frog I ever bought was a yellow Galac that he sold me and he is still going strong and healthy. Stay away from shady dealers on kingsnake and fauna. I'm sorry this happenned to you and I hope people will learn something from it.

since you mentioned brooklyn dart frogs, i wanted to ask you a question directly. i'm from nj and have been interested in buying a RETF or 2. but, after reading this story, i'm skeptical of having any animals shipped to me. brooklyn is less than an hour ride for me. do you know if he owns a storefront or if he breeds out of his home? and if he's actually in brooklyn? heheh i can contact him regarding this, but i figured i'd just ask here, since i was skimming the forums and you mentioned him by name as a reputable seller.

[Kurt]

Brooklyn, huh? There will be a show in White Plains July 11th and Black Jungle will be there, they have some of my baby red-eyes.

[crhoads18]

I apologize for not updating sooner. I haven't really logged into frog forum in a while. It started out with VBS causing my absence and then school starting back. However, I am FINALLY here to post updates on my frogs.

The two frogs that have survived are eating GREAT and doing wonderful. Turns out, one is male. I have heard and seen him calling. Their heads have healed. You can still see some light colored scarring, but nothing major. The frog that has the nose rub had a rough ride, but she pulled through for me. Since this, my husband bought me three more Red-Eyed Leaf Frog. These three are younger than the two that I had, but still great.

Once again, I apologize for the long delay, but here are the frogs:

The one on the left has the head scratches and the one on the right has the nose rub.


Here is the nose rub from head on.


The two of them from head on.

[Jace]

Wow, they look amazing! And very happy and content. I'm glad in the end everything worked out. Thanks for updating us and again-beautiful frogs!

[Kurt]

Looking real good. I am glad things worked out well.

[Lacey]

Why not take them to the vet and see if there is anything they can do to help and if they have any parasite issues to treat as well. I am so sorry about what happened to your frogs and wish I could help. I hope that you keep the frogs so they don't have to be shipped again. I'm sure that you are looking out for their best interests.

[SethD]

2. I've seen some people say these will heal given time, but they look like old wounds (healed) to me. Is there anyway to know the age of the wounds?

3. Should I medicate? (Again my initial impression was that these were scars)

Other than an educated guess based on how it looks there is no way to know the age of the scratches. I tend to doubt that they are old healed scars because I doubt a frog that was injured badly enough to leave scarring of that degree on the head region would survive the wounds. It looks more like what I call "paint scratching" where the frog gets the colored part of his skin scraped off usually by leaping against something. Such light scratches look just like the pictured frogs and will heal over in a few months. As far as medication for the wounds it shouldn't be necessary no deeper than it appears to be. It should heal on its own.

[Paul Rust]

Other than an educated guess based on how it looks there is no way to know the age of the scratches. I tend to doubt that they are old healed scars because I doubt a frog that was injured badly enough to leave scarring of that degree on the head region would survive the wounds. It looks more like what I call "paint scratching" where the frog gets the colored part of his skin scraped off usually by leaping against something. Such light scratches look just like the pictured frogs and will heal over in a few months. As far as medication for the wounds it shouldn't be necessary no deeper than it appears to be. It should heal on its own.

I completely agree here. Just treat for parasites and chalk it up to experience. We really appreciate you weghing in on this Seth.

[Kurt]

I guess I am not needed here. The situation is under control.

[Paul Rust]

I guess I am not needed here. The situation is under control.

Yeah so get lost.

LMAO, just kidding Kurt, I'm glad you approve.

[Kurt]

You guys said it all. The only thing I can add is, I have noticed that wild caught red-eyes have bright orange hands & feet, while in captive bred ones the orange is less intense.