Red Eye Tree Frog question

[crhoads18]

I wrote him back and this is his reply (The temps were in the Upper 70's, and his ad never stated temp conditions):

Hey, every website that I have pulled up has said the highs were in the mid-upper 80s in your area.....in fact, according to weather.com, there is not a single day in the 10 that dips below 85.

You will be hard pressed to find a seller/dealer that will guarantee live arrival on ANY amphibians ANY time, no matter the conditions....let alone in summer. Your claim of less-than-stellar packing is pretty laughable considering I packed those frogs in a styrofoam insulated box with moist paper towels and every other care taken to ensure their safe arrival. I can count on ONE hand the # of DOAs I have had in the last 10 years....and every single one of them were due to shipping delays or mishandling of the boxes.....but I still made good on my LA guarantee.

Here is a picture of those frogs that was taken prior to shipping.....notice the lack of scars....the pictures you show me now are not the same frogs, I am sorry buddy.







Despite my better judgement and what I know to be right, I will issue your refund of <amount>. But please do not reply to any of my future for sale ads....I am not petty enough to fight over <amount>. If you feel the need to attempt to lie & fabricate problems where they do not exist for such a low sum of money, then you obviously need it more than I do.

I don't care where you post your pictures.....those are not the frogs I sent you and we both know it. Also, we both know the temps in your area were higher than 80......but you'll get your refund regardless. But you won't be receiving any more of animals.

[bshmerlie]

Wow!! What an ***. Sorry, is that a cuss word? I wouldn't want to deal with that guy. Sometimes, things happen, but it's how you treat your customers that matters. His customer service skills and compassion suck.

[Kurt]

So who is the guy? And what did you say in your e-mails to him? His first response you posted seem reasonable, the second seemed rather angry.

[crhoads18]

The matter has been resolved at this point, he sent me a refund after the last message I posted. Here is what I said in between the first two:

The temps were in the upper 70's, so yes the temps are fine. I received the package, and it was signed for if you want to check the tracking number for arrival.

Here is the DOA:

Again:


Now as to the scarring; the frogs have nose rubs and have been scarred by what appears to be a screen top. Now I know you can see the scarring in the DOA, but here is another frog showing the scratches,

And the other showing the nose rub.


I am trying to be polite in this, because at least the frogs arrived alive despite less than stellar packing.

For the DOA, a <amount> refund would be adequate.
For the scarred frogs I am not looking for any kind of refund. Thank you for your time.

[Paul Rust]

I am going to speak up because you can't treat people this way and I want to make sure no one buys from this dirtbag again.

They were Purchased off of Arachnoboard. The seller was David Beard.

I have had many frogs shipped to me and have had my share of DOA, I was never treated the way this scum treated these people.

[crhoads18]

The guy got immediately defensive when we sent him the pictures of the frogs. I told him that these were my FIRST and ONLY Red-Eyed Tree Frogs. It wasn't like I was asking for a full refund of all 3 Red-Eyed Tree Frogs and the Malaysian, I just wanted my LAG (which, as previously stated I DID get.) However, when he sent it he responded with "Your refund has been sent to your pay pal account, enjoy the <amount>, my friend"

Since he was so set on saying that the frogs were PERFECT when he sent them, I examined the packaging more carefully. Of the 3 RETFs that he sent, 2 were visible when I opened the box, the other was not. The one that was not visible only had the nose rub, while the other 2 had scratches all over their heads. So, I looked at the lids:







You can see where he made air holes and simply left them sharp! 2 of the 3 Red-Eyed Tree Frogs had access to these holes for no telling how long while in transit.

My husband plans to write him again today and show him the pictures of the lids. Of course, I am sure that he will say these weren't his lids. After he said that these were not the frogs that he sent me, I sent him the picture (previously posted) of the box as I opened it. That's when he wrote back the one line of "enjoy the <amount>, my friend". He could CLEARLY see all of his packaging and the frogs that were his. My husband even told him to check the EXIF data on my pictures, which clearly were for yesterday. Luckily, my husband does a lot of dealing in Tarantulas, so I clearly document ALL package openings just in case of the unfortunate DOA.

As far as his comment of "Don't respond to any of my ads because you won't be getting any more animals from me", I do not WANT more animals from him. I was never trying to get the 2 living frogs replaced and I will love them the same, scratches or not!

[Ebony]

This has been an awful experience for you. Im very pleased you are sending him the photo of the lids. That clearly indicates where the damage was coursed. He needs to know that you have to package frogs very carefully and a container with a bit of paper toweling just doesn't cut it. This makes me so mad as even though you are showing him where he went wrong it sounds to me that he is too arrogant to even take it on board. Sorry you had to go through this. The other frogs went through a rough time and im pleased that they will be happy and safe with you.

[Kurt]

Wow, those photo's explain a lot. When poking holes in a container, you always do it in an outward manner. Its simple, common logic.

As far as the dead one, I have no explanation.

[CrazyAirborne]

sorry to see this kind of stuff happens! Is it weird that i noticed the pics of the frogs when he had them are taken with the frogs outside? In the last couple months ive been into frogs, ive never seen someone bring them outside to take pics... is that a very common thing?

[SethD]

Sorry your first experience with shipping frogs turned out poorly and that he packed them in a manner that led to them getting all scratched up. I don't know why people fell the need to poke air holes in amphibian shipping containers. They are completely unnecessary given the small amounts of air amphibians use. All air holes do is speed up evaporation which is a bad thing during shipping. At least he did refund your purchase price on the dead frog even though it does sound like he was a bit of a jerk about it.

[Kurt]

sorry to see this kind of stuff happens! Is it weird that i noticed the pics of the frogs when he had them are taken with the frogs outside? In the last couple months ive been into frogs, ive never seen someone bring them outside to take pics... is that a very common thing?

If the weather's good, why not. My avatar picture was taken outside.

[crhoads18]

After the lid pictures were sent to him, he said that if was possible that it happened during shipping and those were his frogs. He said that the containers (and lids) were from something that someone had sent him and he said that he cleaned them, but didn't examine the lids (how he cleaned the lids and did not notice the sharp holes, I do not know).

He apologized for everything and said there were no hard feelings. However, we still will not be purchasing from him again.

On that note, I have looked at Josh's frogs and IF I order anything from the web again, it will most likely be from him. Normally, I get my frogs from local breeders and the occasional "aww, look at that poor frog" in Petco.

Thanks to everyone who was concerned and has helped out. I was amazed at how much everyone got involved on this and at how many people cared. It is nice to know that there are so many other people out there who really CARE about the amphibians and not the money.

[Ebony]

We all love frogs here. How are the other frogs doing?

[Kurt]

I am glad it went well.

[kellie]

aww .. i just read this whole thread. i've had nothing but good experiences from the other members of this forum too. everyone is so nice and helpful. but. i'm so sorry for your awful experience. thankfully, the jerk put his tail between his legs in the end and fessed up to his mistakes. it's sad that 3 cute little frogs had to reap the damages .. and one lost his life. so sad. i think the scratches on the other 2 give them character though. RETF's are SOOO cute .. i'm thinking of getting one or 2. but, DEFINITELY not from the guy that you got yours from.

[kellie]

I would certainly treat with Panacur using the dusting method.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...first-aid.html
Ask him to replace the dead frog, if he won't then reveal his identity here. I would be thankful that any are still alive and buy from Josh's Frogs, Alpha Pro Breeders or Brooklyn Dart frogs from now on. They will deliver 1st rate animals and guarantee them. Every frog I have ever received from Josh has been in excellent condition and as a matter of fact the first frog I ever bought was a yellow Galac that he sold me and he is still going strong and healthy. Stay away from shady dealers on kingsnake and fauna. I'm sorry this happenned to you and I hope people will learn something from it.

since you mentioned brooklyn dart frogs, i wanted to ask you a question directly. i'm from nj and have been interested in buying a RETF or 2. but, after reading this story, i'm skeptical of having any animals shipped to me. brooklyn is less than an hour ride for me. do you know if he owns a storefront or if he breeds out of his home? and if he's actually in brooklyn? heheh i can contact him regarding this, but i figured i'd just ask here, since i was skimming the forums and you mentioned him by name as a reputable seller.

[Kurt]

Brooklyn, huh? There will be a show in White Plains July 11th and Black Jungle will be there, they have some of my baby red-eyes.

[crhoads18]

I apologize for not updating sooner. I haven't really logged into frog forum in a while. It started out with VBS causing my absence and then school starting back. However, I am FINALLY here to post updates on my frogs.

The two frogs that have survived are eating GREAT and doing wonderful. Turns out, one is male. I have heard and seen him calling. Their heads have healed. You can still see some light colored scarring, but nothing major. The frog that has the nose rub had a rough ride, but she pulled through for me. Since this, my husband bought me three more Red-Eyed Leaf Frog. These three are younger than the two that I had, but still great.

Once again, I apologize for the long delay, but here are the frogs:

The one on the left has the head scratches and the one on the right has the nose rub.


Here is the nose rub from head on.


The two of them from head on.

[Jace]

Wow, they look amazing! And very happy and content. I'm glad in the end everything worked out. Thanks for updating us and again-beautiful frogs!

[Paul Rust]

Welcome back!
They look great.