I think my WTF may be sick..

[mpmistr]

I have recently purchased two WTF. One is doing great, is of a healthy weight and eats whenever presented crickets. They are both somewhat active at night, the heatlhy frog seems a bit more active of course. Sadly the other Whites is very skinny, he was pretty skinny when I got him but he seems a little worse now. He usually refuses food, but I can get him to eat 2 or 3 crickets with some effort. Both frogs were eating voraciously when I first purchased them.. not sure why he has become worse off.

I've been checking their feces, the healthier frog is having larger rice grain shaped stools. The other frogs are not entirely watery but they are a bit more watery and smaller. The more concerning part is the smell, it is TERRIBLE.. it was so bad I cleaned out their temporary tank outside with a hose because when I took a whiff and it smells more like cow poop than frog poop..

Just some additional info, I recently moved the frogs to a temporary tank, a 35g hex that is 24" tall, they are now back in their 25x18x25 enclosure. I am keeping the day time temperatures around 80F-85F; false bottom heated water + a heat lamp to bask. Night time temps are 75F-77F. I am feeding the frogs every other day. The healthy one is eating 6 crickets per feeding, the other frog is eating 3 at the most. I am dusting once a week.

I don't want to say it's parasites yet, these are new frogs. I suppose the frog could just be stressed from being moved from the pet store to to a temporary tank and now in his final home..

I do not know if there are any vets near by that will see a frog. Is there anything I could do until I find a vet? I am pretty bummed, never really had a sick frog before. Any help would be appreciated.

[deranged chipmunk]

Where did you purchase them from?

I would separate them, if possible. From what you are describing, it sounds like some sort of parasite. Although, I could be wrong.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[mpmistr]

Where did you purchase them from?

I would separate them, if possible. From what you are describing, it sounds like some sort of parasite. Although, I could be wrong.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

I purchased them both from Sailfin in Champaign, IL. I bought them together.

I could move the sickly frog in to a hospital tank, the 35g hex again. I moved them back to their main terrarium last night. I feel really bad. :\

[deranged chipmunk]

Ah don't feel bad. Sometimes things are out of our control. I only asked where you got them because we all know certain store are notorious for having wc animals with parasites. But it is possible they came from the same importer as the other places.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[mpmistr]

I could call the store and talk to the owner, I could see if these are wild caught or not. I am not sure, heck he may not know either.

[Lija]

Gosh, i gotta go now, ill be back with the whole thing in a hour or so, ok? Meanwhile please put them both in separate hospital set ups separately

oh and if you put them in your pretty tank that you were making i may have bad news for you

[Mentat]

Hi Michael! Sorry your frog is not well. Without a fecal it's not possible to tell of any parasites. A herp vet or online lab can do those for you.

You could separate them and set-up the skinny one in a hospital like enclosure. That will make collecting the poops sample easier and separate from each other. Kind of late to ask; but did you quarantine them? Since they where housed together; I would medicate both for whatever condition you find on skinny one with stool issues.

[deranged chipmunk]

Honestly, at this point, it doesn't really matter.

Lynn and heather are the experts on this stuff. It's not really my forte. Like you, I never really had to deal with a sick frog. There is probably something easy(ish) you can do, but in the meantime, I would shoot off an email to doc frye. His info is around here somewhere.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

Yay!! The cavalry is here!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[kueluck]

Call your Vets in the area to see if they will do a fecal on the sickly one. No need to take the frog in, just a fecal sample so they can see what's going on. This isn't stress, as Bill suggested, it's most likely parasites & you do need to separate them. Mine were the same way when I first got them a few years back.

[GrandMusai]

I have two juveniles one of who went through something similar. I remember looking at it one day and noticing it had lost a bit of weight and had runny stool that absolutely REEEEKED anytime I got near its cage. For me I think it had to do with the water quality because this was right before I learned the difference between Tap, Well, Spring and Distilled water so I'm a little curious as to what type of water are you using?

[mpmistr]

I'm at work right now but I will remedy this when I get home tonight. I did place them in the new vivarium but if I need to break it down again it's fine, I am an expert at vivarium breakdown at this point. They've only been in the new set up for less than one day but I suppose that is long enough to have possibly infected the enclosure.. bummer.

I can house them separately tonight with paper towel. I am assuming they both need to be treated for worms after a fecal exam if it is positive. There is a vet that is in the next town over that states on their site they will see reptiles, I assume he could handle a frog fecal exam.

I know it's not really from improper care but I do still feel terrible. Poor guy looks really skinny, it's sad. They were both eating like champs when I bought them. I checked the vivarium this morning to see how he was doing but I couldn't even find him, I think he burrowed in to the substrate, or I didn't look through the plants well enough.. the other guy was his normal happy self though.

Is there anything I can do to help in the mean time after I place them in hospital tanks? When I get home I will take pictures and post them, if that will help.

[mpmistr]

I have two juveniles one of who went through something similar. I remember looking at it one day and noticing it had lost a bit of weight and had runny stool that absolutely REEEEKED anytime I got near its cage. For me I think it had to do with the water quality because this was right before I learned the difference between Tap, Well, Spring and Distilled water so I'm a little curious as to what type of water are you using?

Tap treated with seachem prime, same as I use with my aquatic frogs. Water dish replaced with fresh water daily. The feces smell is absolutely rancid.

I did break down their temporary hex tank the other night because the smell was so terrible I felt it was downright cruel to keep them in a tank that smelled so badly. I smelled it again, the smell is back.. so it's definitely from their fecal matter.

[Lija]

Hate typing on a phone michael, dont feel bad). I can guarantee you both are full of parasites and based on stinky runny stool massive protozoa infection too. You will need to treat both and get both tested too.
There is nothing else you can do other then place them in a hospital set ups, both separately. Plastic plants ( so you can ) disinfect them properly, wet papertowels, all sides of the enclosures covered with smth. Every single day complete full set up disinfection and change of papertowels. Wear gloves and make sure if you have more frogs not to touch anything and attend to your treated frogs the last. Full on quarantine.
Parasites happen all the time, usually easily treated if respect strict quarantine requirements.

Lol i meant i can guarantee you, both frogs are full of...

[mpmistr]

I emailed a vet in my area that says on their website that they will see reptiles. Crossing my fingers they can help.

[Lija]

You better call if you need to double check anything ( dosage, etc) lemme know. Basically all you want from vet is fecal and meds - that is in case they dont treat frogs.

[mpmistr]

You better call if you need to double check anything ( dosage, etc) lemme know. Basically all you want from vet is fecal and meds - that is in case they dont treat frogs.

They're not open today, they open at 8am tomorrow though. I am going to call then. Well actually their website says they're open 4pm to 9pm on Tuesdays? I can try calling after work.

I ran home on lunch. I can't even find the poor guy.. I think he dug himself in to the substrate. I didn't have time to tear apart the tank on my lunch to find him.. going to check tonight, ugh..

[Lija]

Hey, just dont panic, all will be just fine, including frogs. Tomorrow early or after 4 doesnt make any difference. When you call you can ask them to get tests done and get you meds. That's it. What you need to do is to find their poop, put in small ziplocs ( each frog poop separately) and bring it in. Most protozoa found in frogs are commensal and are hard to distinguish in one sample. I know not many vets know how to do so, even experienced with reptiles ones, but if the poop is runny and stinky, frog is eating but is skinny, it is 99,99% guarantee a frog has either pathogenic protozoa or very small threshold resisting nonpathogenic protozoa. You will be prescribed with metronidazole ( flagyl) or ivermectin, both have neurologic side effects, so dosage be better correct.

[mpmistr]

Hey, just dont panic, all will be just fine, including frogs. Tomorrow early or after 4 doesnt make any difference. When you call you can ask them to get tests done and get you meds. That's it. What you need to do is to find their poop, put in small ziplocs ( each frog poop separately) and bring it in. Most protozoa found in frogs are commensal and are hard to distinguish in one sample. I know not many vets know how to do so, even experienced with reptiles ones, but if the poop is runny and stinky, frog is eating but is skinny, it is 99,99% guarantee a frog has either pathogenic protozoa or very small threshold resisting nonpathogenic protozoa. You will be prescribed with metronidazole ( flagyl) or ivermectin, both have neurologic side effects, so dosage be better correct.

Sorry about my ignorance here but is flagyl taken orally or would the frog soak in this? Would Methalyne Blue help here with protozoan infections? Curious because as a fish keeper, I do have this on hand.

[deranged chipmunk]

The flagyl is for you. It's taken the same way as a suppository.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela