I think my WTF may be sick..

[flybyferns]

Michael, how's it going ?

I'm so sorry for all the trouble you're having.
It's just terrible when they are sick.

Keep us posted

[mpmistr]

Michael, how's it going ?

I'm so sorry for all the trouble you're having.
It's just terrible when they are sick.

Keep us posted

Hey thanks for checking up. Unfortunately the medication did not come today, I am hoping it comes tomorrow.

[DigitalPunk]

I am late on this. Wow so glad you sent the fecal samples! Hopefully the meds arrive tomorrow so you can get your frogs better and get this nightmare behind you! Please keep us updated.


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[chibikaie]

I hope that you are able to treat them and they pull through. I just discovered that my frog (and/or his enclosure) has some worms, so I will be joining you in the cleaning and deworming.

[mpmistr]

I hope that you are able to treat them and they pull through. I just discovered that my frog (and/or his enclosure) has some worms, so I will be joining you in the cleaning and deworming.

Ugh it's no fun.. I am hoping I can administer Panacur by dissolving it in water and dropping it on my frogs backs, the appetites are just not there any more (though I think one frog was sneaky and just ate a cricket lol).

[Lija]

Michael, dont do it! Panacur is not soluble in water and if you try to drop on the back nothing will happen it wont be absorbed. You will need to force feed or try cricket thing.

[mpmistr]

Michael, dont do it! Panacur is not soluble in water and if you try to drop on the back nothing will happen it wont be absorbed. You will need to force feed or try cricket thing.

Oh, I was reading that people were doing that, I did not realize it doesn't work. I will have to force feed then. I don't have the meds or instructions from Dr. Frye yet regardless.

Out of curiosity, is this article out of date now? http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...aid-print.html

[Lija]

No panacur is the same as for dogs/cats/ people. It works in intestines but is not getting absorbed in a blood stream.

[Lija]

Oh, I was reading that people were doing that, I did not realize it doesn't work. I will have to force feed then. I don't have the meds or instructions from Dr. Frye yet regardless.

Out of curiosity, is this article out of date now? http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...aid-print.html

I havent read the whole thing yet, but til panacur it is correct including panacur itself. Need to read it properly, it is written 4y ago, some things have changed since then but not by much.

[mpmistr]

I see. I have to be honest I was hoping to use the drop method until he was eating again. The other frog will be no issue, he eats non stop.

My skinny/non eating frog looks a little better today, he actually snuck and ate a cricket when I was cleaning out his enclosure tonight. He seems to be a trooper.

Sadly he just won't take the tongs. I'm going to have to look at YouTube videos on force feeding Whites. I do worry since Dr. Frye said that the lung worm infestation was pretty bad, if too many worms dying too fast could cause septic shock, I assume he will address this in his instructions. I'm guessing once the panacur is in his system the appetite will return.

[Lija]

Strongyloides are not too bad, it will be fine. Im sure you will get detailed instructions with your meds. You just really keep everything clean, not fun but hey, the worst of over, you know what you are treating, you have meds on their way.

[mpmistr]

Medicine arrived. Each frog ate a cricket dusted with Panacur and received 4 drops of Metronidazole on their backs as Dr. Frye prescribed. I really lucked out, the non-eating frog by some miracle decided to eat (eventually -- i left him in a tupperware container with a dusted cricket for a few minutes alone) today so I didn't have to force feed him a dusted cricket, I am hoping the Metron kicks in and he will just take the next round of dusted crickets without needing to be forced.

So my only real question at this point is the instructions say to feed weekly dusted crickets to the frog to administer the Panacur, does this mean they should eat several dusted crickets or will one cricket dusted suffice to start? My gut is telling me to start slow, since at least one frog is heavily infested with lung worms having a mass die off may kill the frog... right?

[Lija]

No, not from these worms, it is ok to kill them all, it is not going to happen anyway, did you get a one time doses separately?
You should have, if not call him for clarification.

[mpmistr]

No, not from these worms, it is ok to kill them all, it is not going to happen anyway, did you get a one time doses separately?
You should have, if not call him for clarification.

What do you mean by one time doses separately?

What I received exactly was an IV bag of Metronidazole with a syringe + bottle to drop the medicine on their back. Instructions are to drop 4 drops on each frog daily for 10-14 days.

The Panacur came in a pouch with instruction to dust insects once a week for at least four weeks.

[Lija]

Oh that is what you meant..... Hm.... Metro - it is correct, but panacur.... I dpnt like dusting with meds in general, bc you dont know how much of actual meds gets into a frog, but it is definitely less stressful then force feeding. I guess that is why the directions were once a week for 4 weeks.... different way of doing same thing. Carry on with how you were directed. When do you need to send control fecal sample?

[flybyferns]

Medicine arrived. Each frog ate a cricket dusted with Panacur and received 4 drops of Metronidazole on their backs as Dr. Frye prescribed. I really lucked out, the non-eating frog by some miracle decided to eat (eventually -- i left him in a tupperware container with a dusted cricket for a few minutes alone) today so I didn't have to force feed him a dusted cricket, I am hoping the Metron kicks in and he will just take the next round of dusted crickets without needing to be forced.

So my only real question at this point is the instructions say to feed weekly dusted crickets to the frog to administer the Panacur, does this mean they should eat several dusted crickets or will one cricket dusted suffice to start? My gut is telling me to start slow, since at least one frog is heavily infested with lung worms having a mass die off may kill the frog... right?

Michael ,
Dust their REGULAR feeding once a week for 4 weeks.
Hearing that they are very 'infested' , you might consider repeating the Panacur again tonight w/ a regular feeding.
This is especially important if the "dust' was not covering the cricket enough?

If you have a mortar and pestle--- grind it really fine first > then dust

You need to bang the intestinal bugs....
The reason it is done for 4 weeks in a row is so that you minimize the risk of re-infestation.

Speak to Dr Frye about the 'mass die off' concept??? I don't know about that?
As Lija mentions, a 2nd fecal needs to be sent.
? 2 weeks after treatment----check w Dr Frye on this as well

This is such an ordeal ! Sorry , Michael
I have been there....I completely understand what you are going through.

You could email Dr Frye - now....... about all of this
He has been kind enough to answer me on a Sunday

[mpmistr]

Hey guys. I am going to send a fecal sample to Dr. Frye 2 weeks after their treatment, is they get the green light they are going back to their vivarium.

The Panacur I received was a pretty fine dust I would say it's pretty similar to my calcium dust, the cricket that they are certainly looked dusted but I can see if I can grind it up further.

I will see if the frogs feel like eating tonight, I know the one frog I have that is in better shape is more receptive to eating right now. The other one, I can try. I think the Metron may perk him up enough to eat, since it's an appetite stimulant.

This whole thing has been a total bummer but it's looking like things are getting better.

[Heatheranne]

Yes, I agree. See if they will eat at least another one or two dusted crickets tonight. How long are they (measured) from nose to anus (snout to vent)?

I would wait until the full Panacut and Metronidizole treatments are done, with a follow-up clean fecal test after before returning them to their homes.

[chibikaie]

You're on the right track for sure.

It is true that very heavily infested animals, when treated for parasites, can sometimes have problems when the parasites die off in large numbers. The veterinarian is right to be concerned, and to make his concerns known to you. If he didn't, and they did not make it, you might be surprised and angry that he didn't discuss the possibility with you. Your best course of action is still to treat as he advised. You can't ignore the parasites, just watch carefully and provide as much supportive care as possible with as little stress as possible.

While dusting is not the most accurate way to dispense medication, your biggest concern is more that they may be underdosed, not so much overdosed. This is one of the safer drugs for deworming; in many species, you can give double and quadruple the usual dose with no side effects (my vet and I went all the way up to six times in camels). And of course we don't want to stress the frog by force feeding.

[flybyferns]

Michael,
I just wanted to remind you about cleaning.
I'm sure you have heard this a thousand times
But you want to keep moving them to clean quarters (even daily if possible) ; to reduce the possibility of re-infestation.