I think my WTF may be sick..

[mpmistr]

Good news for you - you will need to rip all your set up, get rid of everything that cant be disinfected.

More good news your frog looks fine, little skinny, but fine and s/he is eating!

Yep flagyl is administered orally! Have fun!

I've already broken down the tank. How can I disinfect the plants though? I just ordered a bunch from blackjungle so please don't say 50 dollars worth of plants are going down the drain.. :\ They were only in the tank for a single night and the sick guy buried himself immediately for some reason.. I mean if it has to be, alright but ugh...

Removing substrate and bleaching the tank out? That I can easily do.

I've placed each frog in to a 10 gallon tank with wet paper towel and I ripped up my snake plant so they have something to climb on. I taped up 3 sides of each aquarium so they don't stress and they are sharing a heat lamp.

Oh and I called the vet clinic but did not get to speak with the vet directly. The woman I spoke with didn't sound like they've ever dealt with amphibians but she said the vet would call me back if she could do the fecal exam.

[deranged chipmunk]

Bleach dip the plants in a 10% solution. Do not bleach moss. Leave it out to dry for a month then you can put it back in an rehydrate it.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

Wow, you have Gail, Lynn and Lija helping you out? You have the best of the best here bud. Your frogs are going to be fine. And no, it doesn't sound like chytrid to me. But I'm just a builder. They're the frog nurses


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Heatheranne]

Hi guys, just catching up. I'd have to agree...it sounds like a parasite. The fecal exam is your best bet. A vet can prescribe Metronidizole, Panacur, or Ivermectin or a combo of Metro and Panacur or Ivermectin. It usually works very well.

I will follow along as well.

[mpmistr]

Thanks guys I appreciate all the help! I hope to have these frogs back to being healthy as soon as the vet performs the fecal exam and prescribes medicine.

Both frogs seem to be doing well in their QT set ups, both are actually eating but just not a whole lot unfortunately. They seem to lose interest after a few crickets. I am going to see if I can acquire a fattier feeder like waxworms or butterworms to get some weight back on them.

As soon as I get a chance I am going to work on completely breaking down their main enclosure and bleaching it clean. I am going to 'bake' all the driftwood and dip the plants in a 10% bleach solution as Bill suggested and then completely change out the substrate.

[Lija]

Lynn - that lab you gave link for, do they work with owners directly? Wow, that is awesome!
Michael, dont worry about how much they eat, they eat and that is good!

as for lamisil - i never would treat somebody for something unless that something is present. No matter how harmless meds can be, for a tiny and sensitive for everything frog, it will be a stress for its body and it will affect one way and another. Meds should be treated with caution, always! It is not chytrid for sure. The only reason i mentioned it as testing should be usual quarantine procedure. Some frogs can be carriers, meaning they have it, spread it but are not sick themselves, if such a frog gets into household with more animals it can do lots of trouble, so it is something i always do along with fecal testing during quarantine period.

Ivomectin ( ivomec) is the only one that is water soluble and can be absorbed through skin, but it doesnt work for protozoa and is very toxic. I'm using it for my peacocks now. Usual concentration that stuff is distributed doesnt work for frogs. I had the lab to dilute it to lower by probably 1000x concentration, then calculated dose for each frog according to their weight ( up to 0,01g). For that reason i would never recommend to use this drug at home, only at vet clinic under supervision. Unless you are Lynn

another thing to watch if using ivomec for wc whites, it works well and systemically. If you have massive parasite invasion including intermittent forms of tapeworms that is common for WC whites, it is very dangerous to get rid of them all at once with ivomec.

Michael that all above is FIY only, it doesnt apply to your frogs

[mpmistr]

I see. I only do kind of worry about Chytrid because I also keep African Clawed Frogs which of course are known for being Chytrid carriers. I do not use any equipment between the two, the driftwood I did use did come from the ACF tank.. but it had dried out for close to a year on my porch in the sun.. so I figured this was not a concern.

[Heatheranne]

Have you ever tested your ACF's?

[mpmistr]

Have you ever tested your ACF's?

I have not, I own 4 ACF. I've had them for about two years and I've never had an issue with them. (of course they do not show any negative effects of chytrid)

That being said, besides a peice of wood that literally did sit out and dry in the sun for a year, nothing was cross contaminated. I don't believe Chytrid can survive being dried out for that long.

[Lija]

Look why dont you test just for knowing sake. You can do just one, if one has it everyone will.

[mpmistr]

Quick update.. still waiting on fecal test so I can get meds.

What do you guys think about the thin frog? He seems to be putting on a little weight.



I am having a hard time getting them to eat waxworms, they just don't move around enough. Crickets seem to be favored but they still are not eating all that much but I do try to feed them daily if they will eat.

[Lija]

It looks pretty good to me hey dont worry about how much they eat, they eat as much as they can fit at the moment.

[deranged chipmunk]

He definitely is looking better. He's up on his front legs, which is a good sign.

Like Lija said, as long as he's eating something, that's great!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[mpmistr]

Still waiting on the fecal exam results, I called the vet and they had to send the results to a Zoologist. They just didn't find anything they said, but they admitted they just aren't sure how to identify frog parasites. They did find larvae but they could not identify it.. if this goes no where I am going to just ship feces to Dr Frye..

I told them I know the chubby frog has a protozoan infestation (smelly poo) and I'm not sure which results had the larvae.. anyways long story short, still waiting..

My skinny frog is not eating at all. He may eat one cricket a day if I am lucky, one is better than nothing. I'm dusting them of course.

I've been using the 'glass bowl trick' to keep waxworms and crickets in his enclosure at night, but none have been eaten. I try tongs at night to see if he'll eat, he may eat one.

I don't think he has moved from where he is in the last 24 hours, I check him daily, his weight is okay. He is way thinner than he should be but I don't think he is in danger, yet.

The chubby guy is doing great besides having smelly poop.. I actually had to block his vision of the other frogs QT enclosure because he keeps trying to eat crickets through the glass..

[Lija]

Oh my god.... Can you ask them for a pic and send it to me, that is ridiculous, seriously, zoologist? There are pics all over VIN of parasites if they never dealt with frog before...
I mean how long are they doing this test? The test itself probably took them an hour all together, including time needed to take microscope out of storage room and clean every single part of it lol everything else is plain dragging time.
Anyhow, pm me if needed, im not around here much for a few days

[mpmistr]

Alright. I get the feeling this is going to cost me way more than what Dr. Frye would have charged, which from his email is not much at all. I think regardless and to just expedite this situation, when the frogs poop again I am mailing it to Dr. Frye -- this is taking too long and every day my frog is getting a little worse.

I'm actually a little surprised at this point. Their website stated they did deal with reptiles, I would wager the parasites of a lizard or snake vs a frog wouldn't be completely alien to them.

[flybyferns]

Alright. I get the feeling this is going to cost me way more than what Dr. Frye would have charged, which from his email is not much at all. I think regardless and to just expedite this situation, when the frogs poop again I am mailing it to Dr. Frye -- this is taking too long and every day my frog is getting a little worse.

I'm actually a little surprised at this point. Their website stated they did deal with reptiles, I would wager the parasites of a lizard or snake vs a frog wouldn't be completely alien to them.

I think this is a good idea.

[Heatheranne]

Yes, that is a bit ridiculous. I'd just send one to Dr. Frye. He'll help you much sooner.

[mpmistr]

Yes, that is a bit ridiculous. Is just send one to Dr. Frye. He'll help you much sooner.

Going to check the QT tank tonight for poop and mail it off. I don't think I can get 3-5 samples from this frog. He is hardly eating though he has access to crickets and waxworms he simply will not eat either. Hopefully I will find some feces tonight to mail off. Poop from the other frog should not be a problem. I am finding at least one a day.

I worry he may be declining faster than anticipated. I am keeping them fairly warm, mid 80s, not sure what more I can do without meds.

[flybyferns]

Michael do you know when ....... was the last time he ate?
Did I read "one cricket a day" ?