Anyone heard of designer frogs.com

[TAPDart91]

And I cant really count 2 of the frogs being skiddish as an issure. Naturally they are wild accuring amphibian so I would expect them to hide some what from my bipedal goofy self

[TAPDart91]

Drsinger frogs. If you DO have a budget like most of us. They are very fair with pricing and i can only speak for myself but i have had good experience with them so far and all of my frogs where very healthy. Besides nomatter where you order frogs from you have to pay. Quite a bit for shipping alone so when i started looking I chose DF because the price of their frogs seemed more fair. Im not sure where all the bad PR keeps coming from but With any company there is bound to be some i suppose. Only time and satisfied customer's will be able to fix that for them

[deranged chipmunk]

Here are a couple threads about designer and their previous "incarnations":
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...on-thread.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sou...warehouse.html

While I agree, everybody is entitled to their own opinions, I used to think as you do at one point and then I met and had lengthy conversations with some of the top breeders of dart frogs, I saw the difference.

Sure, your darts are currently fine. It's the future generations that come into question. The f2 and f3 generations notoriously have weakened genetics and developmental problems.





Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[clayton1089]

Well I was thinking about breeding and I know they are better housed in pairs as well. And yes I looked at their prices and seem to be a lot more fair as far as my standards go.

[deranged chipmunk]

As far as having a budget, my response is the same I give to everyone. I Do EVERYTHING in my part of the frog hobby, from building my vivs, to purchasing my frogs. It CAN be done on a small budget. It just takes patience and perseverance.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[TAPDart91]

Well this was all very informative I learned alot of things. I did not know or expect to find out today

[TAPDart91]

Thank you everyone for your insight ill be sure to make my pairs up of frogs ordered from many other dealer to utilize the ones iv already aquired as well as widening the gene pool to insure healthy offspring. Does this sound like a sane solution to those of you who are not new to the hobby?

[derezzed]

Well im wanting to get a sexed pair or proven pair of Azureus without paying the almost $300 which is why I was attracted to DF. I live in Washington state and there isnt very many shows around here or reptile shops. I mean I want to get good frogs but I kinda have a budget as well.

You shouldn't have to pay $300 for a sexed/proven pair of Azureus... you can get proven pairs for closer to $200 and I've seen and sold sexed pairs in the $100-150 range. Keep an eye on the classifieds section of the forums.



As for the main topic here... Do NOT breed the frogs you have with frogs from other vendors. That is the big concern everyone has with these guys. You can't trust that what they are selling you is actually what they are selling you. With the renaming and hybrids that they have done... you could have a true Azureus or you could have a frog that was the result of an Azureus and another tinc breeding but just happens to look more like an azureus so they sold it that way since they weren't really able to sell their hybrids. The way they have changed their names and stories so many times makes it tough to believe them when they tell you what they are giving you. Everyone else in the PDF hobby does not want the muddied bloodlines they have to be mixed with the existing lines in the hobby. So, again... do NOT mix them with other breeders' frogs. Keep them isolated.

[TAPDart91]

Wouldnt a hybrid of kind have some kind of trates. Im by no means an expert on dart frogs but these azueres. Certainly look pure bred and put of four they are all practicly identical except for patterns im a little confused . And the names people are getting worried about or nicknames like when pitbull terrier are refered to as "bullies" they are still listed under their scientific names. I think people are mis understanding. I like being informed but again im a little lost.

[derezzed]

Well I was thinking about breeding and I know they are better housed in pairs as well. And yes I looked at their prices and seem to be a lot more fair as far as my standards go.

their prices are so low because they have set up a giant operation and then alienated themselves from the rest of the hobby. They need to price things so low to the point where they lure in new froggers that don't know any better... or else they won't sell ANYTHING. The dart frog hobby is one that people (at least for the most part) pay attention to the sourcing of their frogs and this company is all about hiding things behind their "trademarks" instead of being open and honest like everyone else.

Low prices does not mean "fair" prices... and it does not mean that they deserve your business just for being cheaper. Would you rather buy jeans from a company that treats its workers fairly or from a company that employs sweatshop labor? There is usually a reason one company is much cheaper than most others.... and it usually isn't pretty.

[TAPDart91]

Also i seen no hybrids on their current sight it even said crossbreeding is fround upon. So what makes anyone els online so much more trustworthy if your not picking your frogs fron the parents first hand in person who is to say these other vendors are so trustworthy. Esp when i got spend 300$ at another sight and get frogs that look exactly the same with potentially. Just as "muddied" bloodlines

[derezzed]

Wouldnt a hybrid of kind have some kind of trates. Im by no means an expert on dart frogs but these azueres. Certainly look pure bred and put of four they are all practicly identical except for patterns im a little confused . And the names people are getting worried about or nicknames like when pitbull terrier are refered to as "bullies" they are still listed under their scientific names. I think people are mis understanding. I like being informed but again im a little lost.

not all the time... look up Robertus tincs... some of them are all blue and look a heck of a lot like azureus. So do "new river" tincs. I don't mean to come down hard on you or anything... but you said yourself that you are by no means an expert, how can you be so confident that they are absolutely azureus? I've been keeping them for 8 years, have had 3 different breeding pairs and raised tons of babies and I still see frogs that could trick me and I rely on the reputation of the person selling them to me to know what they are.

Azureus themselves actually have a TON of variation... some have fine spots, some have few spots, large spots, darker spots, darker blues/lighter blues... they are naturally VERY variable. That is why the reputation of the breeder you get them from is so important.

[TAPDart91]

Is there anybody around the St. Louis Illinois. Area that breeds so I could just cut out the middle man and the BS all together since its hard to trust anybody with a well put together websight apparently????

[TAPDart91]

Im just very distraught. Iv invested quite a bit into these frogs as a way a stress relife. Thats what i do to keep my mind of the stresses of the crazy shiz im dealing with. So now im hearing all of this and in a way hate to belive it. Im not discrediting you at all you sound very knolagable but as far as i know there is nobody around that is into the hobby locally. And i was hopping to get good specimen so as to reproduce good quality offspring so I could try my hand at this. And now i have to start all over and can not afford another mind blowing setback

[clayton1089]

Alright so bottom line is if I shouldnt buy from them than where should I buy and what should I expect to pay for a sexed pair?

[derezzed]

It is understandable that you are distraught... but it doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the frogs. Keep them, raise them, watch them, enjoy them. You don't have to breed everything you keep. Buy some other cool frogs from a more reputable breeder, keep them separately... and breed and raise those frogs. Problem solved


Also, check it out here:
St. Louis Reptile Show

Plus, check the regional sections of the forums to find who is in your area.

[TAPDart91]

The only thing that really gets me heated is i ws trying to get a small breeding collection of about 5 different kinds of frogs and now the two I have basically dont count

[TAPDart91]

How do i find the regional section? I am still finding my way around this place.

[derezzed]

How do i find the regional section? I am still finding my way around this place.

Sorry, that was directed more towards the other forums. Don't think there is one here.

[derezzed]

The only thing that really gets me heated is i ws trying to get a small breeding collection of about 5 different kinds of frogs and now the two I have basically dont count

It happens... more people have been in odd situations like that than you'd think. I've been there too. To be honest, trying to pick up darts as breeding projects right off the bat isn't a great idea to begin with. That is another reason why a lot of people have issues with DF since they are pretty much advocating it.

A LOT of people are breeding them and there really isn't a ton of "money" in it or anything. It's best to just find out what you like and keep them for your own enjoyment. If they breed that's great. It is fun to raise tadpoles and froglets... and you can sell the offspring. Just don't expect it to be profitable by any means (especially for the time put in). I use the little money I make on mine to pay for food and occasionally a new addition. That being said, breeding doesn't make you a successful keeper. Keeping healthy frogs does.