Finally had some success with my B. terrestris

[SethD]

But in my point of view i am concerned of the fact there will be woodhousii with the appearance of the normal ones,
in their genes lies the albino gene that doesn't show up because they need 2 of those genes in a pair in order to make it visible. Even when i am going to breed it with a toad without the disorder, chances tell me i can still get a hidden flaw in my offspring without me even knowing. As if i am going to breed 2 german shepards and all of a sudden they give labor to a chihuahua because they got hidden genes that only shows up when both parents pass it on.Might be a tad overdone this example, but i would be disappointed if it happens to me when i chose to get the normal ones i get them with hidden flaws coming up later on.

Well given the fact that there are less than 20 breeders/hobbyists(and that is being generous due to the recent interest in and successes with melanophryniscus stelzneri, a more realistic number would be more like five or six if one doesn't count M. stelzneri) in the United States that are very likely to breed any kind of bufonid at this time the issue of "tainting" the captive population with hidden and unwanted genetics is pretty much a non-issue. Further, if someone wants a "guaranteed pure" wild type woodhousii that is, and is likely to remain, pretty easy to get given that they are native to the USA, quite common, and usually unprotected.

But in line of my love for the frogs as they are supposed to be by nature, i think it's scary getting all kinds of hidden flaws in my own bloodlines.

Again, not really an issue with bufonids, virtually no one breeds any of them. Before "tainted bloodlines" can be a legitimate concern there would have to be a whole lot more toad breeders than there are. Toads aren't like poison frogs where there are numerous captive lines of numerous species and hundreds of different breeders. Right now and for the foreseeable future if someone didn't specifically tell you otherwise the phototype of a given toad specimen is most likely its genotype and even if it were not it wouldn't make a bit of practical difference except to a handful of people who would most likely be tickled if they bred a specimen and it proved out to have a unusual genotype.

[Greg M]

SethD, to return to the original topic, I am quite impressed with your toad husbandry. I have Woodhouse's toads and my toadlets from this year run between 1.5 and 2 inches, rather less than your Southern toads. What are your secrets for such rapid growth? I feed isopods, small Dubia nymphs, crickets, and the occasional silkworm or butterworm. Everything that can be gut-loaded is fed Repashy's insect gutload, and I dust with Repashy's Calcium Plus ICB... No feeding issues (short-tongue) or anything...

[SethD]

What are your secrets for such rapid growth?

Steroid injections. Seriously, it is normal for them to grow quite fast if the temps are in the upper 70's to mid 80's and they have a sufficient supply of food. Some individuals will always grow faster than others but best growth rates overall come when they are fed as much as they can eat daily and twice daily for the first month or so. The biggest ones will grow around an inch per month until they hit full adult size while some of smaller ones will take a couple more months to reach adulthood. You may have to separate smaller ones out of a group so the bigger ones don't take the lion share of the food. Mine are currently fed primarily lateralis roaches and mealworms/superworms(fattening, but that is not a bad thing when toads are growing rapidly) and during the summer they would also get what ever wc insects happened to get caught in my insect traps. That was the works, stinkbugs, flying ants, various beetles, moths, etcetera. They wouldn't turn down anything. I also dusted daily with repashy ICB. I was feeding out orange isopods too but stopped because they were eating up far to many and to continue would have destroyed my isopod colony which wasn't intended to feed so many hungry toads. lol What your feeding sounds fine, to get faster growth you probably just need to feed more of it. They will eat a ridiculous amount of food if they have a chance. Mine will consume a quarter(perhaps more, certainly no less) of their body weight daily and be ready to do it again the next day. When they are toadlets that translates directly into growth speed rather than making them fat as it will adults. In wild growth patterns are similar. Ridiculously fast if there is an abundance of food, slower if food is less available.


I personally have kept around thirty of the southern toad toadlets so I would have have a goodly number of hets to continue the breeding project with. now that they are a pretty good size they certainly do go through a quantity of insects but I knew they would. If everything works out I should be able to produce some some xanthic leucistic southern toads sometime next spring. A large group should make it a little easier than single pairs do.

[Greg M]

Excellent info Seth - thank you! I think the feeding frequency (I was feeding every second day) and perhaps the temperature (my room temperature is typically 72 to 76 degrees, even in the summer) probably account for the difference in growth rate. I'm going to play with those two variables. As an aside, please put me on the list for one of your leucistic homozygotes when they come on line...

[SethD]

Just an update on this for anyone interested since someone just asked me about it via PM.

I attempted and succeeded in breeding the second generation this spring which should in theory have produced 25% visibly showing the mutation if it was a typical simple recessive gene. Unfortunately out of several hundred raised to morphing not a single tadpole or toadlet produced showed the mutation. This means the mutation is most likely either not heritable or tied to a fatal gene that prevents development of the eggs that would be homozygous for the trait. In short the project is most likely a dead end. Disappointing, but that is how it goes sometimes.

[LilyPad]

Very interesting thread to read through. They look great!! Sorry the project was a dead end though

[John]

Congratz again Seth. I wish you would breed Bufo speciosus or Bufo cognatus though .