Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

[BlueKiwiOca]

Hey everyone, long time no see.

Unfortunately, I have another sick frog. This time it's Treecko, one of my green and golden bell frogs (Litoria aurea).
He's extremely skinny, weak, lethargic and isn't eating properly.
In comparison to his brothers and sisters, his legs look like twigs; almost no substance to them, and his hipbones are visible.
His colouring is also very dull- normally a brown-gold colour with patches of light green.



I've had some issues with food for the frogs; we've suddenly had a cold snap which meant it took much longer for the fruit flies to hatch than it normally would, so they were without food for quite a while (food supplies for amphibians/ reptiles are ridiculous in New Zealand; all we have on offer are intermittent supplies of mealworms or fruitflies, or crickets... if you're willing to part with $45 for 50 of them.) So since last year I've been making my own cultures, to great success.

I saw him shedding the other day, but he's also been yawning occasionally.. but more than usual. I fed all the frogs last night , and while the others all piled in, Treecko didn't seemed interested, only catching three or four fruit flies after having not eaten for perhaps 10 days (due to food issues above; when i can i try to feed them every 2-3 days.)

He lives with five other frogs of the same age and size (3cm svl, approximately 1 year old), in an Exo-Terra 10-gallon terrarium. I'm aware of the recommendations regarding the number of frogs per gallon, but they're so tiny and aren't cramped at all; so until I can afford a larger tank I'm sure this will do). Humidity tends to be at about 70-80%, with a temperature of about 20-23C.
I feed them wingless fruitflies dusted in calcium powder+D3 every 2-3 days when supplies are good; on occasion they may go a little longer without food due to troubles with supply.
Their substrate is sphagnum moss, and their water is de-chlorinated tap water which I change every 2-3 days- should probably do this more often due to the amount of frogs in the tank.

I've soaked him in a honey/water mix for 20 mins to try give him a bit more energy to eat; I offered him a worm dusted in Repta-Boost but he didn't take it. I've also moved him to a hospital tank with plain soaked paper towel substrate, a water dish and a plastic plant.

I've tried to do some research but I haven't come up with much; I only hope its not a parasitic or bacterial infection because there's next to nothing I can do to help him in that case

Thanks,
Gabby.

*UPDATE* He shedded again, and his colouring has improved. He also took the worm I offered again. I'll continue to keep an eye on him and keep him separated

[Lija]

You seem to be on a right track! Good job!

[BlueKiwiOca]

Checked on Treecko tonight and he seems to have taken a turn for the worse... Did a poop but it was badly formed and smeared everywhere, saw some undigested fruit flies. His rear end was reddish, possibly bloody. And most scarily, his skin is very discoloured. I'll attach a photo of him a couple of days ago, and then tonight

[BlueKiwiOca]

Bumping this. Treecko died the night after I posted the last update, and now I have another frog who seems to be sick with the same thing. After Treecko died I cleaned out the terrarium thoroughly, and replaced all the sphagnum moss.

Froakie has been very dull-coloured and lethargic as of a few days ago. He had a weak feeding response yesterday, and none today when I offered him fruit flies. I've now isolated him in a hospital tank. Help please?

[Jessalyn]

I'm sorry, I don't know Golden Bells very well, however have you tried the unflavored pedialyte bath? There's directions on how to do it.


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[Lija]

I"ll be back in this, have very very limited time now.

Are they wc or cb? Have you quaranteened them properly? Please describe, can you also please answer all the questions to the "trouble in the enclosure questions?" Thank you

[Mentat]

Hi Gaby! Sorry for Treecko's death and the new sick one . Is there a local herp vet or lab that could conduct a fecal exam for you? Might as well answer the enclosure questions to see if we can narrow down issue. Thank you !

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”

The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
16. How old is the frog
17. How long have you owned him/her
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
20. How often the frog is handled
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[flybyferns]

Gabby,

Try to answer the questions (in post #7) as best as possible

Sorry for the troubles you are having and very sorry you lost a frog

I would separate each remaining frog.
A frog this size should not be eating fruit flies. FF should NOT be a regular feeder.
The ff are much too small ! Continue to feed the the dusted worms and small crickets.
**The worms ---if they take them --- is a feeder that is easily digested for a sick frog.
You are better off feeding them a few dusted crickets daily vs a lot of crickets all at once.
The frog in photo # 3 is very thin

Housing for frogs should be 1 frog per 10 gallons. "Cramped" could be causing the "skinny" !
The small quarters are likely causing tremendous stress -----> setting yourself up for a spiral downward ... of issues. It's imperative they have a larger tank -- ie 40 gallons if they are to remain together ( or 2 -- 20 gallon )

Get rid of the sphagnum moss--- as they can swallow it by accident.
( Use dampened paper towel for now ---dampened with properly prepared water - NOT distilled)
Change it every day. Wash your hands ( or use disposable gloves) between each little hospital enclosure.

As mentioned, if any of the frogs have diarrhea you will need to find a vet to do a fecal ( poop ) test to rule out the possibility of parasites. You might as well do only one test....since they have been housed together ---and if found to be positive---they will ALL have to be treated prior to be housed together in a MUCH larger enclosure.

You need a solution for the food as it's imperative that availability never be interrupted.
Do everything possible to become very proficient at and keep a few cricket and worm cultures!
Or ....at the very least secure shipments of both from a supplier via the mail ? This sounds like a tough one for you , sorry.

The extra shedding. A frog should be rinsed very well after a honey soak.
Hydration will occur if you use properly prepared water for the frog's soaking dish and simply get him to stay in it with a loose fitting lid with air holes.

If the 'extra' shedding occurred 1st--- has the frog been exposed to any kind of chemicals--- of any kind.
What do you use to clean the tank? Let us know

Please keep us posted

[flybyferns]

Gabby,
How are things going?

[BlueKiwiOca]

Froakie in the hospital tank


An indication of the size of the frogs


The regular tank

[DigitalPunk]

It is late here so I am just responding to get subscribed to the thread and to note one thing in your list that I would change.

You are doing the proper amount of supplements for calcium. Does your calcium supplement have D3 added?

Also you need to add in a multivitamin dusting of the food 1 time a week. I dust with Calcium+D3 3x (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) Multivitamin 1 time a week (Sunday).

I just switched to Rapashys multivitamins. Through reading it seems like the Rapashy multivitamin uses a better delivery method for vitamin A. Repcals delivery method is now thought to not be as effective as the Repashy method for frogs.

[BlueKiwiOca]

Hi Paul, yes the calcium I use (Flukers is the only one available here) has D3 added
I have looked around in the past for a multivitamin supplement, but to no avail (see problems with living at the bottom of the world >.<). I'll try looking again.

[BlueKiwiOca]

bump! Froakie still alive (that makes one day longer than Treecko.) Still lethargic and dull coloured, perks up a little when I spray him with water. Still very sleepy, and I'm trying to keep him warm. (but not too hot)

[BlueKiwiOca]

Okay, so I was taking some pictures of Froakie in the quarantine tank to see if the camera could pick up anything my eyes couldn't see.. lo and behold! The flash picked up some very small lighter green spots on his back, (will post when I can) that look very similar to the spots other frogs on this forum have developed when they have a bacterial infection. Although I may be too late in finding this, I've applied some Neosporin without painkiller to his back in the hopes that the antibiotic properties might help him. If I could do more, I would, but its 10pm at night so I wont be able to do anything else till tomorrow. Still keeping him in quarantine and changing towels and water everyday to try and minimize the bacterial load (if that is what it is) in his system

[Jessalyn]

I'm sorry for your losses fingers crossed for the other little ones


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[DigitalPunk]

I am so sorry for your losses. Are the it here in the same tank the 2 sick frogs were in before you moved them to quarantine?


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[Lija]

So sorry for your loss, this is really sad

one thing comes to mind to me here. You need a bigger tank and to do fecal for remaining frogs, even if you do it for one frog, whatever it had everybody will have and gotta be treated everybody as well.

[BlueKiwiOca]

Paul, no I've moved the remaining four frogs to another tank with paper towels, I'll have to gut the main tank and clean it thoroughly again. I'll be keeping them on paper towels from now on.
Lija, I can't afford to get fecals done for the remaining frogs; at $80 each, it will cost me $320, which I don't have as I am a student, but thank you so much for your help and kind words. If I can save up some money, I'll try get some fecals done, but in the meantime do you have any other suggestions? Like keeping their environment extremely clean, etc?

[kahly]

Have you possibly considered the chytrid fungus cuz that sounds like it to me.

[chibikaie]

Submit a group sample. You don't need one per frog, just mix all of the poop together.