Stubborn Pacman

[Thevacantface]

While the risk might be somewhat low in feeding large prey items, it's still a highly avoidable risk. You don't let a toddler play with a plastic grocery bag unsupervised, one 1 in a thousand will put it over their head and suffocate, but do you risk it being your kid? The rule applies mostly to younger frogs, and for prey that may not digest easily, but should still be generally followed for the majority of food items. My 2.5" guys eat full night crawlers often, and sometimes want a second one, or will easily eat 3 large dubia nymphs and have no problems. I did feed them crickets that were a bit large when they were tiny, and they did get kind of backed up, so yeah, be careful.

[Hypnotic]

I can give you a funny example of this. Of my entire collection (12) I have had 1 impacted frog. I fed him normal size food items and had him on eco-earth, yet he was impacted and it took several honey baths to help him poop it out tiny chunk by chunk.
Now, I have 2 females that are exactly 4.3" both. 2 weeks ago I fed all my frogs adult locusts, both my adult females (wich are the biggest in my collection) were backed up and required a honeybath to poop it out. While the small ones (as small as 2.7" males) did not have a single problem. This shows that size doesn't matter, it can happen to any frog but size does play an important role when feeding extremely large feeders, because they massively increase the risk.

[limnologist]

feeding large feeders should be done only for variety, education, and nessecity. pacmans were built to eat anything and everything, its tgeir nature. though it does reduce risks to feed small prey, if you have a non-in bred, healthy frog, you shouldnt be afraid of feeding large prey.

[GrifTheGreat]

feeding large feeders should be done only for variety, education, and nessecity. pacmans were built to eat anything and everything, its tgeir nature. though it does reduce risks to feed small prey, if you have a non-in bred, healthy frog, you shouldnt be afraid of feeding large prey.

Ugh.......Let me suggest that if you're going to post about feeding larger than recommended feeders do specify between experienced keepers and novices.

I'm going to have to say that it has nothing to do with inbred frogs. Any and all are subject to the follies of their species particularly the ingestion of prey items that are much to large to handle. Feeding prey that is in excess of the normal bounds for prey items places the frog indanger of death from organ damage or stomach rupture. Not only this, but many will vomit to remove prey that is too large and thus prolapsing their stomach which almost alway results in death.

Don't recommend for keepers to feed prey items thats size is in excess of what should be offered. To make recommendations like this is irresponcible and potentially harmful to a new keeper's experience with their pet. As I recall you fed your Gartersnake to your frog for the sole purpose of you didn't want to care for her anymore. A neglegent act that is ill advised and by no means for education purposes or fornthe benefit of your frog. She wouldn't eat so you fed her to your frog. I have no respect for people of that nature.

[limnologist]

Ugh.......Let me suggest that if you're going to post about feeding larger than recommended feeders do specify between experienced keepers and novices.

I'm going to have to say that it has nothing to do with inbred frogs. Any and all are subject to the follies of their species particularly the ingestion of prey items that are much to large to handle. Feeding prey that is in excess of the normal bounds for prey items places the frog indanger of death from organ damage or stomach rupture. Not only this, but many will vomit to remove prey that is too large and thus prolapsing their stomach which almost alway results in death.

Don't recommend for keepers to feed prey items thats size is in excess of what should be offered. To make recommendations like this is irresponcible and potentially harmful to a new keeper's experience with their pet. As I recall you fed your Gartersnake to your frog for the sole purpose of you didn't want to care for her anymore. A neglegent act that is ill advised and by no means for education purposes or fornthe benefit of your frog. She wouldn't eat so you fed her to your frog. I have no respect for people of that nature.

I have kept and studied cranwelli for the past 6 years, I have found that almost every single health problem from eating a large prey item is usually caused by stress, in-bred frogs, over-fed/under-fed, and runt frogs. A perfectly healthy, strong, normally sized frog can easily eat a large prey item. Also, there is no need to continually feed the frog large prey, I once again say that feeding large prey should be done for educational purposes, necsessity, and variety.

As for the garter snake, I have no idea why you would assume that 1. I owned the animal- 2. I fed it to the frog because I didn't want to care for it anymore-. The animal belonged to my neighbor, it was his first garter snake and it got out of its cage, his mother stomped it dead because she fears snakes. He wanted to see my frog in action so I said I would feed it the dead snake. I am very surprised that someone with your reputation and rank could make such assumptions and not be open to observing what this animal does naturally. People who become so offensive about pets are the people who used to deter me and many people I know from keeping pets and learning about nature and its abilities, treasures, wonders and gifts. Though it is not necessary to feed a pacman large prey, it IS what they were built for and it IS an amazing experience to watch it happen.

[GrifTheGreat]

I have kept and studied cranwelli for the past 6 years, I have found that almost every single health problem from eating a large prey item is usually caused by stress, in-bred frogs, over-fed/under-fed, and runt frogs. A perfectly healthy, strong, normally sized frog can easily eat a large prey item. Also, there is no need to continually feed the frog large prey, I once again say that feeding large prey should be done for educational purposes, necsessity, and variety.

As for the garter snake, I have no idea why you would assume that 1. I owned the animal- 2. I fed it to the frog because I didn't want to care for it anymore-. The animal belonged to my neighbor, it was his first garter snake and it got out of its cage, his mother stomped it dead because she fears snakes. He wanted to see my frog in action so I said I would feed it the dead snake. I am very surprised that someone with your reputation and rank could make such assumptions and not be open to observing what this animal does naturally. People who become so offensive about pets are the people who used to deter me and many people I know from keeping pets and learning about nature and its abilities, treasures, wonders and gifts. Though it is not necessary to feed a pacman large prey, it IS what they were built for and it IS an amazing experience to watch it happen.

My reputation and interest is to help those who ask for it with correct information and safe feeding methods. I apologize if I mistook you for someone else, but you do not recommend such feeding regiments to new keepers. Once they become experienced enough then it is up to them.

Second there is no evidence that line breeding is the cause of a frog not being able to handle large prey. If you research a bit more you will discover that nearly if not all specimens in the US are infact inbred. The collection and importation of these animals is controled and illegal in many of the areas where they are from. Stress yes, poor genetics yes, inbred only half correct. How do you think breeders get their morphs to remain in their lines?

[limnologist]

My reputation and interest is to help those who ask for it with correct information and safe feeding methods. I apologize if I mistook you for someone else, but you do not recommend such feeding regiments to new keepers. Once they become experienced enough then it is up to them.

Second there is no evidence that line breeding is the cause of a frog not being able to handle large prey. If you research a bit more you will discover that nearly if not all specimens in the US are infact inbred. The collection and importation of these animals is controled and illegal in many of the areas where they are from. Stress yes, poor genetics yes, inbred only half correct. How do you think breeders get their morphs to remain in their lines?

quite, perhaps I have not had enough experience informing others. I guess when I say in-bred what I really mean to describe are those unhealthy, weak frogs that were mass produced by the big breeders. Those frogs seem to be less capable of eating large prey than their stronger counterparts. It's almost as if they have lost some of their natural abilities.

[GrifTheGreat]

quite, perhaps I have not had enough experience informing others. I guess when I say in-bred what I really mean to describe are those unhealthy, weak frogs that were mass produced by the big breeders. Those frogs seem to be less capable of eating large prey than their stronger counterparts. It's almost as if they have lost some of their natural abilities.

It is very possible. Weak genetics can show up at random and the further line bred they are the more genetic abnormalities will show. This is where the mutants come from, but only the genetically altered Samurai lines have mutants aside from the occational Chimera that Frog Ranch produces. It can also come from breeding genetically weak individuals together and thus producing weaker offspring, but that doesn't always happen.

[Lija]

feeding large feeders should be done only for variety, education, and nessecity. pacmans were built to eat anything and everything, its tgeir nature. though it does reduce risks to feed small prey, if you have a non-in bred, healthy frog, you shouldnt be afraid of feeding large prey.

It is so ridiculous. It is irresponsible too. Out of education? Necessity? That is about feeding garter snake to your frog? That is negligence, plain and simple, same goes to a person killing a snake.

I will say one thing about it - when you have a pet you ARE responsible for it well being, you are not experimenting on it for any purpose. You don't know where it came from, what genetics it carries, if it healthy or not, being inbred or not, you always go safe route. Privilege of having a pet comes with certain responsibilities, people ignoring them have no respect from me.

[Murphy]

Wow, I don't check for 1 week and a full out debate starts up! Anyhow, just updating for anyone who cares. Clyde has found his feeding response and will now catch crickets on his own. I still put night crawlers in his face just cause they don't move much if you just put them in front of him but as soon as it's in his face he goes for it. I'm thinking he was just adjusting to his new enclosure and now that he knows i'm not there to kill him, he's developed quite the appetite! Thanks to anyone who gave advice. It's good to see so many passionate frog owners.

[chibikaie]

Glad to hear he's eating!

[Helios]

I'm late to the party, but something you might try if this happens in the future or for anyone else with similar problems who sees this thread: I've given a frog a vitamin and electrolyte soak after a couple days of no apparent appetite and then boom. Correlation does not equal causation, but it's possible it's linked.