Chytridiomycosis?????

[Stephhyeahh]

Hi guys, so I've been doing a fair bit of research on all these problems I'm having with my babies at the moment and a lot of the symptoms results are coming to Chytridiomycosis?
Does anyone here have any clue and any information on symptoms that I need to look for, or even if someone has had a frog with this?! It would be a huge help because my frogs aren't very well at all.

They have been to the vet many of times and at the moment with all the lumps and bumps shes just ruling out a fungal infection, they are currently on some anti fungal medication every second night into their mouth or on their skin but its been 3 weeks with hardly any improvement, two of the five have become extremely lethargic and not breathing properly (which are now in quarantine), but it is also coming into winter so could this lethargic side of them be them slowing down? I just don't know but I cant have them die slowly in front of me if it is this Chytridiomycosis or even something else. In my other posts I do have pictures of the lumps but if anyone needs any further pictures please let me know!

[LilyPad]

It sounds as if your frogs are under some extreme stress. I have read back through your other threads and think it would really help us help you if you filled this out, just copy and paste it and put your answers in ---

Try to get pics of each frog and their entire enclosure.

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”
The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
16. How old is the frog
17. How long have you owned him/her
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
20. How often the frog is handled
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

[Stephhyeahh]

1. Size of enclosure --- 90x45x90cm
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences --- 5 all GTF
3. Humidity --- NA
4. Temperature --- NA
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish --- I have a waterfall into a large pond?
6. Materials used for substrate --- Pebbles and gravel
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. --- few fake plants and logs
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv. --- All soaked, baked and washed
8. Main food source --- crickets and woodies
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) --- Calcuim once a week
10. Lighting --- UV
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure --- NA
12. When is the last time he/she ate --- 3 ate last night, 2 haven't even in a while
13. Have you found poop lately --- Yes
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area. --- Lumpy, lethargic
16. How old is the frog --- 2 are four years 3 are 2 years
17. How long have you owned him/her --- 2 almost 4 years and 3 of them 4 months
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred --- captive
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats --- every second night and crickets or woodies
20. How often the frog is handled --- hardly ever unless checking the frog
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area --- Medium?
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) --- Clean the feaces out daily and water is changed every few days, massive clean out of all plants, logs, pebbles, filter is done once a month so less stress is caused.

I'll get pictures ASAP, thank you for replying.

[LilyPad]

You need to find a way to monitor your temps and humidity. Without that info, there is not a whole lot of help we can give you.

Are the pebbles and gravel small enough that they could ingest them? White's tree frogs are ravenous eaters and could easily scoop up pebbles, causing impaction and stopping them from eating anymore. I would get some kind of substrate like plantation soil or coconut husk fiber and get rid of all pebbles and gravel. You could also put live plants in there to help level out the humidity.

Do you have a screen top? Is there good ventilation?

I'll be waiting on pictures.

In the meantime, you may want to read this --- Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea --- to learn how to provide them with optimal care and prevent stress that will lead to illness.

ETA: With plants and a substrate that they can grow in, you'll be doing less cleaning too. I keep isopods and springtails in my tank and they do most of the cleaning for me. I've only changed the substrate in my gray tree frog tank twice since building it nearly 3 years ago. I have a drainage system in the bottom so that I can pump out any extra water and prevent my plants from rotting.

[Stephhyeahh]

To be honest with you I have never done anything with the temperatures and humidity as I was never told about it and in almost 4 years, I've never done anything about it and they have been perfectly fine, until now. Until i got these 3 new frogs. Ever since these 3 new frogs, everything has gone down hill and just keeps going. With the gravel, i bought the tank off a frog breeder and she said she uses the same thing and has never had a problem with it. In the past I have used the sphagnum moss and the coconut fiber but it just made the water and glass so dirty. The top of the tank is a screen top and is well ventilated. Its just annoyed me for the fact that almost 4 years of no problems to being hit with it all in one go as soon as i get new ones, even though i quarantined them for 2 months


---- This is the tank set up for all five. Some logs are still to be put in but im waiting to maintain these sick frogs before putting them in.

--- This frog only has lumps on his face, still eating, still croaking but no lumps on the body, 3 of the 5 look like this.

--- The lumps on the face...

--- What 2 of the 5 look like which are out of the enclosure. Lumps all over the body, lethargic, breathing with his mouth open, blowing bubbles from his nose, bleeding and not eating at all.

[LilyPad]

Were they to the vet already? The bleeding and bubbles could be a respiratory infection, but I'm not sure about the lumps. I have no experience with chytrid so I'm not aware of the symptoms. They are well beyond an internet diagnoses by the looks of it though.

Regardless of whether they've "always been fine until now" you need to make sure they're living in proper conditions. Environmental factors might not affect them short term, but can long term. You can't expect to have healthy frogs with a long life if you do not follow proper care for their species and they're not fine now.

Were the two new ones tested for parasites or fungal infections before you introduced them? Sometimes these things can lay dormant before attacking. They do need a lot more perches, tall branches, so they can claim their own space.

And honestly, dirty glass is better than a dead frog. You could get away with no substrate but only if you're measuring humidity and making sure it is correct for them.

[Stephhyeahh]

Yes they have been to the vet and are all currently on anti fungal medication. The new three I recently purchased I took them straight to the vet to be checked out. One did have a bacterial infection in its gut but they were all medicated immediately as well as quarantined for 2 months. As I stated above, I know more logs and branches need to be in the in their tank but im not adding anything further until the infection is under control... With the heat and humidity, the surroundings of frogs is constantly warm and humid. But I might have too look into something more stable.

[Java]

I tsk at fake plants. A lot of people don't realize that plastics release toxins over time.

Also, even with 4 years of no problems, introducing members could create stress and cause problems. But, like you implied, there's also a chance something was spread. I recommend quarantining all the frogs. Then read up on heat and humidity because those do play large roles in a frogs like (large.) It does sound more like stress than an actual sickness (stress causes all sorts of problems.) Sounds like you need to start misting.

And have you tried the honey bath? Honey isn't only good for impaction- it's chock full of nutrients that can also aid frogs.

[Mentat]

Here is a good article with information on Chytrid: Chytrid Fungus-Plague casuing global amphibian mass extinction. Took me a while to find and read the previous posts in other threads and might have missed some information too. That is the reason we recommend starting a thread for any event and staying with it until situation ends.

Couple things to note are, that you introduced new frogs and also that you moved to new location. Where new frogs quarantined? If so; how and for how long? Asking because there is possibility the new frogs carried a pathogen with them. Sharing cleaning or feeding supplies between a quarantine enclosure and others is a big no-no. You mentioned 5 total frogs; what size are them and how large is the enclosure. Stress from overcrowding can be a contributor to your frog's woes.

Is the new house location close to chemical factories or pollution sources? Have you started using any new cleaning chemicals/insecticides in household or where they in use at your new location prior to your arrival? Do you wash your hands well and rinse them in dechlorinated water before handling frogs? What is your water source (tap, well, bottled, etc.) for frog's water dish and misting? Do you treat water with dechlorinator. If so, what brand and do check it's expiration date. Thank you and good luck !

[Stephhyeahh]

Hi Anna and Carlos,
Anna, the fake plants are all new and there are only 4 in total all shown in the picture above. I have the two frogs which are not well in separate tanks while the other 3 which are fine still in the enclosure. But a honey bath? Could you explain a little more? I've also heard of putting brown gum leaves in the water dish as the leaves help heal a frogs skin. So I might give that a go considering they are Australian frogs and the gum leaves are found where they are normally found.

Carlos, the new frogs were quarantined for 2 months and were put into the tank with the other two after moving. The frogs range from 10cm until about 15cm, smallest one being 10cm and biggest being 15cm, the tank is roughly (h) 600mm x (w) 600mm x (d) 450mm.
The new place isn't near any chemical factories or pollution sources, I am not aware of any chemicals or insecticides in the household prior to moving, BUT we did get termites sprayed within and out side the house. What they have started much before the move and before the termite control.......
I use tap water before and after handling my frogs, but i have done so for four years, the tap water at my place isn't full of chlorine, frogs water dish is water which has been from the tap, boiled and let sit for a few hours to cool completely or tap water, but again, I have done so for four years.

Thanks for the help

[Stephhyeahh]

Hi everyone, just an update with these frogs, one has been euthanized with the suspicion of Chytrid. Tests and an autopsy are being conducted and I will find out exactly whats going on next Friday to which I can medicate and do everything I can possible for the other sick frogs. Also, it looks like the seller i got these frogs from is using other peoples names and license numbers here in Australia to take wild frogs and sell them like hes had them for years....... That is also being investigated.

To help with the elimination process of possible fungus outbreaks i need to keep my enclosure at a temp of 30 -35 degrees Celsius for a week, can anyone suggest the best way to do this, best heat source, should i get rid of all logs and get new ones and etc? Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Fenchurch]

Hi,
here is a reading you could find very useful concerning Chytrid (how to recognize it and how to treat your frogs) :
http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...id-fungus.html (there's a link in the post).
Bye !
Fenchurch