Surinam Horned Frog Breeding Project

[Helios]

Hey Everyone,

Outside the art threads it's been quite a while since I've posted specifically regarding frogs. So, obviously a lot of us are crazy about pacmans in general. Based on what I've seen, the Surinams seldom turn up. I have the opportunity to start working on a breeding program with some and I'm curious: What kind of interest is there really in the Surinam horned frog? If they were easier to find is there a demand?
Either way I'm planning to chronicle the project here!

[GrifTheGreat]

They become available every year usually around spring time adults are imported into the country. They are very difficult to keep alive due to them not adjusting well to captivity. They usually never get over their stress and eat. They are also haboring parasites and disease upon importation and even after treating for all ailments they tend to expire.

[Helios]

Yeah I've noticed the occasional wild caught supplies. I'm familiar with their eating issues, as well as the potential for parasites. From what I understand, the pair I'd be working with are eating well. I have a very well known herp vet nearby who will be working with me to try and stablize their health as far as parasites go.

[GrifTheGreat]

Yeah I've noticed the occasional wild caught supplies. I'm familiar with their eating issues, as well as the potential for parasites. From what I understand, the pair I'd be working with are eating well. I have a very well known herp vet nearby who will be working with me to try and stablize their health as far as parasites go.

Good! They'll need to be treated for Chytrid as well.

Good luck.

[Helios]

Good to know!

Thanks! We'll see what happens. Hopefully all goes well.

[Helios]

Grif, seeing you keep C. Cornuta what have you done to be successful outside parasite control? Also, forgot to ask what's the best method to treat for Chytrid?

My pair arrived today! Very clearly got a male and a female, apparent from the size difference and more vivid coloration of the male. There was a little apparent shock from the overnight trip, but all in all they both looked in excellent condition and outwardly healthy. After sitting on the surface for about ten minutes they went ahead an dug in, which I would assume is a good sign. Conditions in the enclosures are good and stable, so after two days or so I'll be offering food and we'll see how it goes from there.
Forgot to mention: I found these guys at a site called First Choice Reptiles. Very pleased with the transaction and communications I had with the staff. They've won me as a customer and I would recommend their animals and service.

[Helios]

Wow, so I had done a lot of research as to caring for these guys successfully, but this evening I'm just now seeing how many failed or lagging attempts there have been to establish captive breeding programs. Pretty interesting; guess I'm biting off a lot, ha. I've had a good deal of success breeding a species of reptile that has been reputed as almost impossible to work with, so maybe my luck will translate to these specific frogs as well!

[WorldClassFrogCoddler]

hey. im interested in your program. if you succeed i would be interested in buying a froglet. theymre really cool looking. although i am still waiting on some tax refund bs to be cleared up, because imm already obligated to buy some from mike. but their amazing appearance will make them easy to sell i think. good luck and keep us updated. also remember to take lots of notes and lots of measurements, this way you will learn as you do it and retain that knowledge. I am building a book full of pacman knowledge and itms really handy to have that info at my fingeetips at any time.

[Helios]

Thanks! I'll be sure to let you know how things progress. I love the look of the surinams. I'm really hoping it works out as I think I have some pretty innovative ideas for the tadpole rearing I'd love to try out. Oh for sure! I think keepers have just as much potential to contribute valuable knowledge as do actual scientists. Very cool about your book. Are you planning to try and publish it or is it just information for your use?

[GrifTheGreat]

Grif, seeing you keep C. Cornuta what have you done to be successful outside parasite control? Also, forgot to ask what's the best method to treat for Chytrid?

My pair arrived today! Very clearly got a male and a female, apparent from the size difference and more vivid coloration of the male. There was a little apparent shock from the overnight trip, but all in all they both looked in excellent condition and outwardly healthy. After sitting on the surface for about ten minutes they went ahead an dug in, which I would assume is a good sign. Conditions in the enclosures are good and stable, so after two days or so I'll be offering food and we'll see how it goes from there.
Forgot to mention: I found these guys at a site called First Choice Reptiles. Very pleased with the transaction and communications I had with the staff. They've won me as a customer and I would recommend their animals and service.

I lost my Cornuta to a bacterial infection.

As for Chytrid treatment you'll need Terbinafine hydrochloride and the way you get this drug is by buying Lamisil AT spray.

You need to mix a solution of 1 ml Lamisil AT to 200 ml distilled water. Easiest way to do this is to spray 10 sprays into the 200 ml distilled water. You will have to house the frogs in a hospital setup with only damp paper towels as a substrate while treating them.

For treatment you must soak the frog in the solution for 5 minutes per day for 10 days. Be sure to coat the whole frog in this solution by using a spoon and pouring some on the frogs head etc. Avoid the eyes and nostils.

Hospital setup must be cleaned and disinfected each time you soak the frogs. You will also have to change the paper towels everyday.

You can place some of the solution in a spray bottle and mist the walls of the hospital tanks too. This solution will remain stable for 48 hours and can be reused in that period of time.

Use de-chlorinated tap water for the frogs paper towels.

[Helios]

I'm sorry to hear you lost yours!
Thanks for the run down!

Some good news with my pair: Pretty sure the male has eaten the crickets I offered. Didn't see him eat them, but no sign of them in the enclosure so logically...
Did get the female to take two nightcrawlers!

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm sorry to hear you lost yours!
Thanks for the run down!

Some good news with my pair: Pretty sure the male has eaten the crickets I offered. Didn't see him eat them, but no sign of them in the enclosure so logically...
Did get the female to take two nightcrawlers!

They're a very sensitive species, but should do ok as long as the eat.

[Helios]

Good to hear, and more good news: I've now actually seen the male eat crickets. Both are now verified to be eating, which is a relief! I'm wondering if some of the issues keepers have run into with feeding could be tied to husbandry practices that deviate from their natural behavior. Being wild caught, we're dealing with natural instincts that are functions at 100%. I've seen discussion of a lot of feeding issues surrounding keepers who are feeding during the day, or hand feeding. While most captive bred pacmans seem to do well with this, I wonder if the failure with Surinams comes from the fact that they are 1). nocturnal and 2). Not comfortable eating while there's a lot of activity (ie hands) around. While all pacmans are nocturnal I wonder if their appetites outweigh the natural behavior when captive bred whereas the Surinams are still functioning exactly as they do in the wild. It could of course be an issue surrounding the species specifically, but is in the least in interesting thought.

[GrifTheGreat]

Husbandry is always a major factor with all issues relating to frogs.

[Raya]

Interesting thread to follow! Will you be posting any pics of your cornutas?

Best of luck with your project and keep us posted!

[Hypnotic]

Some of these animals are just too sick to surive the stress. I did everything I could for the boy that I got, he was skinny and very apathic. I fed him, treated him for everything he had and did my best to stress him as little as possible.
I threw food in at first, he wanted nothing, I slightly force fed, he started eating on his own, but eventually passed anyway.

[Helios]

Raya: Thanks! I will be posting some pictures here in the next few days. Got some great ones with a pretty high quality camera!
Hypnotic: Sorry to hear yours didn't make it! It's tough when you do all the right things and the animal still just doesn't respond. I think you're absolutely right that some animals simply never adapt being removed from the wild. I'm very hopeful about the success of this project. The surinams are such a beautiful species and I think a stable captive bred population has a lot of importance in more ways than one.

I've been able to keep both eating regularly and both are still looking good!

[Helios]

Finally have some nice pictures to post. Most are of the male as the female is harder to get good shots of and I don't want to disturb them just for a photo.

[Hypnotic]

I'm curious Helios, what are you offering both? I also have a new one in right now, he's still going to the treating process for worms and protozoa.
How are yours healthwise?

[Helios]

They're actually both eating crickets quite well. The male's appetite isn't quite as robust as the females, but his weight has remained consistent. I've been able to get the female to eat nightcrawlers, but the male has not been interested in them. The female has also eaten a pinkie mouse. It's interesting, she has the appetite that is more stereotypical of what you hear pacmans act like. She didn't really pick up in that regard until after I had given her an electrolyte soak.
Healthwise both appear fine, they're behaving normally, weight looks good, and there are no outward signs of any problems. My herp vet has been out for two weeks due to back surgery so I haven't yet run the fecal screen for parasites. The company I bought them from did run a battery of treatments when they first got them.