Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

[CHiNO]

I would like to write about my experience with Mike Matson (Mike’sPhat Frogs). On the morning of Wednesday May 7^th, 2014 I placed anorder for two albino woodhouse toads, and one samurai blue cranwelli. Mike promptlyshipped on Thursday May 8^th, 2014 and I received the package in themorning of Friday May 9^th, 2014. I took them home and immediatelymoved them individually into larger (4”-5”) Dixie cups with plastic plants forthem to hide under. Mind you the toads were only about the size of a small cricket;these enclosures were quite large for them. I came home the next day to findone of the toads sprawled out dead, I moved the dead one into the sauce cupthat mike provided in case he would want me to ship it back. I contacted Mike, heasks for proof and I send it to him. He then moves on to accuse me of keepingthe toad in the original container that he shipped with, and blames the deathon me. Mike’s argument was that he kept lots of frogs/toads and none of themdie, so it must be my fault. I bought two toads, both kept in similar conditionsand one ups and dies. I just wanted Mike to right the situation, he pretty muchtold me to pay for another one. I have lots of experience raising baby frogsall the way into healthy large adult frogs. Mike not only was unprofessional,he even called me a moron. It was obvious to me I could not come to an agreementwith him…as he was not professional and rude. I filed for a claim on Paypal forthe dead toad. Mike messages me and tells me Paypal will side with him. I lateron called Paypal to see why they closed the claim, they stated that they do notdeal with disputes on livestock, no wonder he was so smug. This was the worstvendor I have ever dealt with and I will never ever deal with him again. Also http://www.sandfiredragonranch.com/sells the same albino toads for only $15 dollars each. I gave Mike plenty ofchances to rectify the situation, but he resorted to name calling and immature tactics. Enjoy my $35 Mike, I hope it makes youRICH!

[Mentat]

Hello CHINO! Understand you are not a happy camper with this deal; but the fact is most live animal sellers only provide a live arrival warranty. Unless Mike offered you a different warranty, your frogs arrived alive and that is the end of it.

I'm not saying the frog died from being placed in a small container; but strongly recommend you move the survivor to a larger enclosure where you can accurately monitor it's temperature and humidity parameters. Sorry for your loss !

[lindsayshocking]

I don't know. Honestly, if the toad dies within 24 hours that seems suspicious to me. I'm surprised he wouldn't offer to refund you the money or send another toad. That's what I would have done. Kind of unprofessional for him to call you names, as well. I will definitely keep this in mind next time I go frog shopping. I am sorry to hear about your experience :/

[r3k2p]

Chino- definitely good to know when going shopping in the future. Thanks for the heads up... Now following thread.

I'll vouch for Chino knowing how to care for fogs. I've purchased quite a few frogs, juvenile and adult, that were all in great health and eating well. I've seen first hand and can tell you that his animals are well kept.

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[Lija]

Sorry for your loss, i dealt with Mike, got 2 frogs from him and can tell you he was very professional and caring. In my experience if you want proper customer service you gotta behave yourself. Im not saying that was the case here, but given situation emotions might have run wild.

At any rate most sellers have live arrival guarantee. Meaning they will arrive alive and healthy. If it is not the case you need to contact him within 2 hours ( +/-) with a proof they are dead or smth is wrong, you provide pic, you never ship dead/injured frogs back.

A lot of things might happen in 24 hours, even kept in ideal conditions, some just cant adapt well to stressful situations and that is not sellers fault, those are the risks of buying baby frogs/toads.

[Helios]

This may not be the most helpful suggestion, and I certainly understand your frustration. Dealing with shipping animals always makes me a tad nervous and amphibians can be so delicate in responding to their environments. I always try to garner every last detail about how they're being kept where I'm buying from in order to recreate those exact conditions during the quarantine period.
Just throwing that out as a little aside in the topic.

[irThumper]

Never again... http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=34578

[irThumper]

[Frogger00]

I know you are upset, and I don't know the whole story, but there is many other things to blame other than the breeder. Maybe your frogs came in contact with the disease while being shipped, or the breeder didn't even know that his frogs had caught the terrible disease. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you are sharing your experience, but please take into account these other possibilities. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with a few of your frogs, I hope the others are doing well.


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[irThumper]

This is no snap judgement, believe me. The veterinarians confirmed that the frogs would have been infected before coming to me. If you want to know the WHOLE story, including the threats made against me by Mike for trying to notify people about the Chytrid (and that they should test/treat their frogs to be on the safe side) then you can PM me and I will fill you in. I have been trying to piece together some very disturbing puzzle pieces, including the fact that frogs from the same breeder were dying at our local Petco-- they weren't dying from coccidiosis, after seeing it first hand I am 99% sure it was Chytrid. I also hear constantly about people's Petco frogs getting sick and up and dying... there has to be a common denominator, other than Petco just sucks at amphibian care. On Facebook was also a little girl who purchased WTFs from this same breeder (not Mike, the supplier in my case) more than once. The last time she got them directly from him at an expo... all of them got sick and died in short order. These Petco (etc) frog deaths all need to be investigated, they cannot simply be brushed off as the fault of the store or of the owners. Someone needs to be accountable. Mike even tried to say the fault was mine because he said he knew I "never quarantined any of my frogs." Anyone who's been following me on here knows THAT sure as shoot isn't true! He said they had to have caught it from one of my other frogs... I told him if that was true then we really had a big problem, as ALL my frogs (except one) came from the same breeder! My only non-Sandfire frog is Martha, and she came to me as an adult from a different Petco (35 miles away) and a different supplier. Also, I document EVERYTHING in both photos and video. Other than having a myriad of internal parasites they have been treated for all of my other guys have been healthy and living with me since Oct, Dec & Jan... Pole Bean came to me already skinny and sick, and Butter Bean was dead within 29 days with no obvious outward signs until just before he died.

People need to stop sticking their heads in the sand and brushing domestic frog deaths under the rug, they are not doing the herp industry a bit of good by doing so. I am not interested in replacement frogs... I would refuse them at this point rather than risk going through this again! And even though we are out a substantial amount of money I am not asking for a refund, I am asking for accountability, not threats and redirection away from the issue.

I know you are upset, and I don't know the whole story, but there is many other things to blame other than the breeder. Maybe your frogs came in contact with the disease while being shipped, or the breeder didn't even know that his frogs had caught the terrible disease. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you are sharing your experience, but please take into account these other possibilities. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with a few of your frogs, I hope the others are doing well.


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[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Honestly, I get kind of a vibe of Mike's, because he kind of feels like the McDonalds of the breeder's world. You see adds for them all the time, and then stuff like this happens...

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/your_...mcnuggets.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqKl4Q3hW4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime
http://grist.org/list/mcdonalds-mcre...e-site-advice/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...dvice-website/

[irThumper]

Xavier, McDonalds never threatened to come to someone's house and F-them up. Go inquire at Faunaclassifieds.com as to why Mike's been banned from there.

[gut]

I'm very sorry for your loss, but thank you for sharing it.

[Frogger00]

Xavier, McDonalds never threatened to come to someone's house and F-them up. Go inquire at Faunaclassifieds.com as to why Mike's been banned from there.

Wow. That is so unprofessional! Hope you and your frogs are doing okay.


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[mikesfrogs]

I am just seeing this now and CHINO you know this entire thread isn't what happened...... You left the frogs for 2 days in.the same small deli container that they were shipped in. Lazily you did not change them. If I recall correctly there was a large amount of humidity on the cups. Which would indicate the temps were atleast in the 80s. Frogs are not snakes. You cannot leave them in tubs for days and not clean or care for them...

I offered you half off on a replacement. You just would have to pay shipping. Those toads are live arrival guarantee. I have been doing this for quite a few years now and everyone that messes up and kills their frogs within the first few days makes up a story that doesn't match the picture. You killed that frog.

You then also tried to go back to paypal and get all of your money back. Which then you would be trying to rip me off. I usually work very well with people when frogs die and replace them as I see stories match the picture. However, when you come at me like an ******* demanding money back for something that you did..... That's where I am going to draw the line

Also, I am part of sAndfire. Those toads were posted on kingsnake.com at wholesale prices because there was a overload of them. Good luck finding them at $15.00 again. The retail value for albino Woodhouse is $30-$50.00 just depending on how well started the babies are

I would like to write about my experience with Mike Matson (Mike’sPhat Frogs). On the morning of Wednesday May 7^th, 2014 I placed anorder for two albino woodhouse toads, and one samurai blue cranwelli. Mike promptlyshipped on Thursday May 8^th, 2014 and I received the package in themorning of Friday May 9^th, 2014. I took them home and immediatelymoved them individually into larger (4”-5”) Dixie cups with plastic plants forthem to hide under. Mind you the toads were only about the size of a small cricket;these enclosures were quite large for them. I came home the next day to findone of the toads sprawled out dead, I moved the dead one into the sauce cupthat mike provided in case he would want me to ship it back. I contacted Mike, heasks for proof and I send it to him. He then moves on to accuse me of keepingthe toad in the original container that he shipped with, and blames the deathon me. Mike’s argument was that he kept lots of frogs/toads and none of themdie, so it must be my fault. I bought two toads, both kept in similar conditionsand one ups and dies. I just wanted Mike to right the situation, he pretty muchtold me to pay for another one. I have lots of experience raising baby frogsall the way into healthy large adult frogs. Mike not only was unprofessional,he even called me a moron. It was obvious to me I could not come to an agreementwith him…as he was not professional and rude. I filed for a claim on Paypal forthe dead toad. Mike messages me and tells me Paypal will side with him. I lateron called Paypal to see why they closed the claim, they stated that they do notdeal with disputes on livestock, no wonder he was so smug. This was the worstvendor I have ever dealt with and I will never ever deal with him again. Also http://www.sandfiredragonranch.com/sells the same albino toads for only $15 dollars each. I gave Mike plenty ofchances to rectify the situation, but he resorted to name calling and immature tactics. Enjoy my $35 Mike, I hope it makes youRICH!

[Frogger00]

Mike, please do not make things up. IrThumper always always always quarantines any new additions and treats any illnesses with vet recommended meds. It is very possible that it your fault, but it is also possible that it is IrThumper's fault. I don't know the whole story, but putting the blame on her and bashing her publicly is incredibly unprofessional and rude.

Honestly, I'd have to say that you yourself are most likely at fault here, especially with your poor reviews.


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[mikesfrogs]

iRthumper she has never responded saying she did any quarantine method. She has not responded with proof of a vet report. I packed the animals. She purchased them thru me knowing that they are sAndfire frogs. These did not even touch my warehouse. I will put blame on her. Especially after her throwing my name and sandfires around stating these frogs came from our facilities with chitrid. She has no proof at all..... If so show me. I would like to contact the vet myself.... This entire claim is a joke. I am tired of dealing with it.

she is a very busy body type person. I can understand someone being upset. However, all of us breeders treat every animal that enters our facility for chitrid.... So, no she didn't quarantine and treat these frogs properly. Seeing that these we're the only two animals that passed it is possible that the tank or items within has chitrid. It is possible that she touched something outside that has the fungus on it. It's possible that the frogs she collected last year had chitrid. It is possible the frogs she currently has is carrying it and has not reacted to it because their environment has not changed. She may have not cleaned her equipment properly. Chitrid is in a lot of areas as it is transferred quite a few ways ....

The good thing is in captivity this fungus can be cured with little to no casualties

And as far as my poor reviews..... I have received very few compared to the 1000s of frogs that I have sold. I would bet it is less than 1%

Mike, please do not make things up. IrThumper always always always quarantines any new additions and treats any illnesses with vet recommended meds. It is very possible that it your fault, but it is also possible that it is IrThumper's fault. I don't know the whole story, but putting the blame on her and bashing her publicly is incredibly unprofessional and rude.

Honestly, I'd have to say that you yourself are most likely at fault here, especially with your poor reviews.


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[mikesfrogs]

Every response and post on here will be saved and forwarded to sandfire and Petco. You are also throwing Petco under the bus saying they have infected frogs ect. Petco does not play around with accusations. Neither will sandfire or I. If these false claims continue we will have an attorney contact you.

The frogs are gone and have passed away. There is no issues with frogs on our properties. So right now every comment, thread and picture is being saved as libel defamation.

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Every response and post on here will be saved and forwarded to sandfire and Petco. You are also throwing Petco under the bus saying they have infected frogs ect. Petco does not play around with accusations. Neither will sandfire or I. If these false claims continue we will have an attorney contact you.

The frogs are gone and have passed away. There is no issues with frogs on our properties. So right now every comment, thread and picture is being saved as libel defamation.

You know, that's all you ever say. If you were to actually sue someone that did nothing wrong (you did) you would have sued by now. So stop accusing her before she actually sues you first!

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Mike, all she has been doing is proof! Let me direct you to this post.
http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=34578
Or this one
http://www.frogforum.net/showthread....313#post260313
Or this one too!
http://www.frogforum.net/showthread....293#post260293
So take responsibility for the hurt you caused our friend, who quarantines all of her animals before hand.