Bloated Amazon Milk Frog - Can anyone help?

[kipling]

Over the past few days I have noticed my little amazon milk frog has started to look really bloated, seems to only be the abdomen. I initially thought he may have just eaten too much, but having not fed him for a couple of days now it seems there may be a problem. I have another milk frog and he looks fine. Does anyone know what might be causing this? Is there anything I should do? I gave the whole terrarium a good clean out yesterday in case it was anything to do with bacteria. Other than being bloated he hasn't been behaving particularly weirdly, he is still climbing up onto leaves and was bathing in the water dish earlier. Any advice would be great, I've attached a picture so you can see what he looks like now (sorry it seems to be sideways, I don't know how to change it)!

[kipling]

Can anyone help at all? He still doesn't look great, very swollen abdomen. I'm worried about him. Other frog still looks fine, not swollen at all. Please help?

[dart frog dawn]

Are you sure its a male and not a gravid female?


Dawn

[flybyferns]

Hi,
He may have swallowed substrate or could have an intestinal obstruction?
What kind of substrate(s) do you have in the enclosure?
Have you found any poop in the past day or 2?
What are you feeding the frog?
What size is the feeder ?

If you suspect this could be possible, get him into a de-chlorinated water to soak --- try to get him to stay there for quite some time, even if you have to cover the soaking dish to keep him in the water. 30 minutes ( temped water --not cold / not hot...comfortable on when dribbled on your wrist)

Provide a - clean- shallow soaking dish (water should not be above his chin)
Not tap water !
If you do not have amphibian safe water de-chlorinator-get it as soon as you can.
In the meantime use bottled 100% spring water from the market.

Do not feed him until he poops.

Please ..........Keep us posted.

[flybyferns]

kipling,
How's he doing?

[kipling]

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry I didn't respond until now, we're in different time zones and I've only just seen this!

I have put the frog in some de-chlorinated shallow water in a separate tub to soak now. It is covered so he can't get out.

I originally had coconut husk as a substrate but the frogs were so tiny and weren't finding their food so I now just have them on layered paper towels until they've grown a bit (I read online somewhere that this was ok whilst they are small - if this is a terrible idea let me know and I'll change it as I have coconut husk).

It is hard to tell if the sick frog is pooping because there are 2 in there. I have found poop but it could well be the other frog who is looking and acting totally normal. They are both around an inch long and I feed them size 2 silent crickets (4-6mm) at the moment.

Dawn - I refer to the frog as 'he' loosely out of habit, because I actually have no idea what sex the frogs are. The only clue I have is that they are both from the same batch of frogs and the sick one has always been slightly smaller than the other one. I only got them 4 months ago and they are my first frogs so I'm still quite new to all this and would not know how to tell if they are male or female! Thanks for the reply though

I'll update later, after the frog has had a soak and is back in the terrarium and relaxed.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! You could move the "bloated frog" to a quarantine enclosure by itself to better monitor feeding and pooping. The unprinted paper towels as substrate are fine as long as you get them damp with dechlorinated tap water. Crickets should be sized same as distance between frog eyes or smaller.

If frogs are tiny; then it's not a gravid female. Could be impaction, one thing you can do, is very carefully palp the belly area. Does it feels hard (impaction); soft and squishy (gas); or jelly like (fluid)? Although you have no substrate, too large a cricket or a piece of paper towel could get frog impacted. Let us know what you find and we will go from there. Thank you !

[kipling]

Thanks Carlos! I wasn't able to palp the swollen area as the frog was very stressed, I've taken him out the water soak now and noticed that he has pooped but I'm not sure the poop looks normal. Instead of being the usual brown colour it was a bit brown but the rest lighter and cloudy. I can provide a picture if necessary! Is that a sign of anything? I have to say the frog looks like his belly is more squishy when he's moving around rather than hard. I can't quarantine him right now as I have to thoroughly clean another enclosure for him, but I will do soon.

[kipling]

The latest update is that the frog went back into the terrarium yesterday, and then last night when I checked on them he seemed to have completely deflated. Along with that his sides looked like they'd caved in a bit from being stretched so much and then shrinking again. He still seemed ok and was jumping around the glass and leaves as usual. But this morning when I checked on him he seemed to have puffed out again. I'm not sure whether to try and give him another soak for an hour or so in a separate water dish again? Can anyone help further having read this new information?

[flybyferns]

Hi,

I think I would quarantine him.
Separate everything for a few reasons:

1) you have to find his poop
- to make sure his is not or still not impacted.
2) I would save his poop and be ready to have a fecal study done as these symptoms could be from a parasite?
- so separating him will insure you get his fecal to be tested
3) if his fecal is positive you will have to treat both frogs
$) you can monitor his food intake.

Are you de-chlorinating their water?

Be sure the feeders are on the smaller side for him. ( 4-6 mm is ok--- no larger)
Maintain temp parameters

[samw]

Hi, this might be a silly respond so sorry if I'm patronising you at all.


Milk frogs puff up their sides when they feel threatened, is he definitely always inflated? If every time you approach the tank you are sticking your face up against the glass or opening the doors you might find that he’s already spotted you and he’s just freaked out. It might be a good idea to stand on the other side of the room and monitor if you can.


I also find mine turn lighter if they get chilly so it’s also a good idea to check he isn’t cold!!


Hope that helped rather than patronised!

[Mentat]

Based on your last inputs; think we can probably rule out impaction and renal failure. Agree with Lynn in that it should still be in quarantine and a fecal test be conducted in case gas retention is due to pathogens. If frog can puff up and vent out air voluntary; then it's as Samw stated due to stress.

Does frog remains puffed up while asleep? What was situation when you found it deflated? Can you try to repeat situation and see if frog relaxes again?

[flybyferns]

I hope we can - all - get to the bottom of this, and determine what might be going on

Thanks for all the ideas and input

samw, I think that you have mentioned something very possible

Hopefully, kipling will be able come on soon to give us an update

[kipling]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all your responses, and sorry for the slow reply, had a hectic couple of days!

So in response to your comments:

I do dechlorinate their water, I use Reptisafe water conditioner both in their water dish and to spray the inside.

In terms of a pattern of when the frog is puffed up and deflates, he does seem to remain puffed up in his sleep. On the occasion when I noticed he had deflated, I came into the room in the evening and he was climbing on the glass and looked deflated and like his sides had sunken in. The next morning when I checked on him he had puffed up again. I haven't seen him deflate since that occasion. Last night and this morning he has looked puffed up.

Samw, don't worry that wasn't patronising! I am a new frog owner so I welcome any comments. I do sometimes perhaps get too close or open the doors a little too frequently so I am keeping my distance and minimising that to see if it helps. I will keep you updated!

This might seem like a stupid question, but where do you go to get a fecal test done? I'm from the UK and I'm not sure a regular vet would be able to help, so would I have to seek out an exotic pets vet? Or is there another way?

Thank you so much for all your help!

[Mentat]

...This might seem like a stupid question, but where do you go to get a fecal test done? I'm from the UK and I'm not sure a regular vet would be able to help, so would I have to seek out an exotic pets vet? Or is there another way?...

Would recommend you have a veterinary with herp experience conduct the Fecal test. In the USA we have labs that will conduct a test via mail; but don't know of any in UK. Good luck !

[StickyFrogfeet]

any updates on your frog? I believe my frog didnt puff up and try to expel the blockage until after the vet gave him a frog laxative, but the same type of waste did come out of him. that was after vet care though maybe a little before too. So I am not sure though if your frog could be blocked up.Has your frog thrown up at all mine was throwing up a lot too when he was blocked up.