Help, infected rostral abrasion on White Tree Frogs!

[Lija]

Hi, i wish you guys get me out of my hiding sooner

anyhow this looks very much not good and very painfully familiar.....

You need to stop self treating and run to the vet who knows frogs asap! I mean it, run! Call the vet and tell him it is an emergency! Every medication has to be used in certain way and the worst you can do is to jump from meds to meds, especially it is the case of antibiotics. Correct dosage is very important too. If you dont have access to frog vet, but have access to antibiotics, pm me.
Meanwhile....
How are you keeping them? Before and now? Please answer to "trouble in the enclosure question" here.

[Fabrizio]

Thank you Lija and Lynn,
I got her and the already deceased male at a expo 15 days ago, and only slight lesions were barely visible at the beginning. The trader told me about how frequent is this lesion in this species, as they jump forcefully and after shipment (form USA) are often that situation.
I found a Polypedates leucomystax, the same species, looking very similar to mine here (fig. 4 in the PDF) -and the said reasons were the same.
http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&...64125504,d.bGQ
I bought first Polyp. 2 years ago, same seller, they were fine - I lost female last September, a few days of absence and too dry killed her
Male is still healthy.
SO I searched for other female, in November I got one and 3 males, she was injuried the same way, so 2 males.
After some days of Bleu-methylene and Baytril, the less injuried male recovered, and he's fine; the other died, and a third one never was injuried.
So died that female, after 1 month of antibiotics.
So I got this further pair 15 days ago... only to see again the same problem
-Vet are quite afar, long train-bus travels surely stressful; and here in Italy amphibians are not well known, barely you can find vets expert enough in Reptiles.
If something more I can do for help her, I would try my best.
I have Baytril (25 mg),
Vibravet (paste),
Sofargen (SSD cream),
Gentalyn cream (= gentamycin + beta-metasone, antyinflammatory cortisonic)
Cicatrene ( powder = Neomycin + Bacitracin)
Ampicilline, powder;
Bactrim = trisoprim (powder and syrup);
If more antibiotics are needed, I'll try my best to find them, other are surely available in the nearby pharmacy.
I look forward for any suggestions, hope I could put it in some results...

[Lija]

No, i meant how are you keeping them

please answer these questions

1-size of enclosure
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
3-humidity
4-temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6-materials used for substrate
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
8-main food source
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often )
10-lighting
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12-when is the last time he ate
13-have you found poop lately
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog
16-how long have you owned him
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred

meanwhile, make sure you keep your sick frog separately from the healthy one on wet papertowels in a enclosure with all 4 sides covered, provide enough hides, plants, etc, use ssd that you have 2x day on wounds and use Enrofloxacin ( baytril) 10mg/kg once a day for 2 weeks. It should be water based suspension, count correct dosage based on your concentration.use insulin syringe to administer dose, you needs to drop correct dose on frogs back. Do not handle and do not touch a frog unless absolutely have to. If it is getting better you still need to use it for 2 weeks.

the main trick here is to provide as stress free environment as possible +meds. Im sure a frog is wc, so you have a long way to go even if/when she is healed.
Of course long drive is not the best option, but Italy is well knows for reptile vets, in fact the last symposium i believe was hosted there i will try to help you, good you can get meds, here in north america everything is only by prescription

i gotta go now, but there are a few things you will need to do for your healthy male too, not urgent though.

[Fabrizio]

Thank you Lija and Lynn,
excuse me for delay in answering....
About your questions, I have to answer that they were kept in a void box, with dry paper towel and a 1 inch deep lid of water, and only a smooth wood I removed later.
Her enclosure is in smooth plastic, about 30 X 40 x 40 cm - she doesn't engage in jumping, except when bothered by treatments (I try to be not stressful)
-No food taken, as long as I know, since I bought her on 23 March; but some days later I found a poop.
I'm avoiding to put insects inside as I'm afraid they could stress and even bring more bacteria inside... Today I put some 3 mealworms, but not interest, at least at beginning.
-She is kept at room temperature, about 22-23 °C ; I'm afraid heating mat had a role in killing the male, as he was resting at the bottom and towel paper was dry.
-IS there any risks, if she ingest some food while her mouthparts are still smeared with SSD?
I had read your precious suggestions however, and already practicing them.
Are you sure SSD twice a day is good? I notice, quite often she wipes away it as soon, and as I try to compensate for that, I'm worrying perhaps too much active principle is delivered to her organism (her limbs stay more or less smeared with the cream)
As to Baytril, dropping some of the due amount of drops directly on lesions, is advisable?
-I would like to understand that, even because I'm afraid that one of the medications could remove / not allow to get in contact with the skin the other, if put in the same place and about at the same time.
Here more recent three pictures of her, 4-9-11-12 April ; I see, injuried area is quite 'stable', at least (in my dead frog in Dicember, under several antibiotics, the injuried area kept extending all the time, a bit at a time).
-A worrying issue, a small area on mouth side that seems ''reddened'', in today's picture.
4 April
http://i61.tinypic.com/9rlge1.png
9 April
http://i57.tinypic.com/vsm4br.png
11 April
http://i58.tinypic.com/25fuh34.png
12 April
http://i59.tinypic.com/15q4uiu.png

[Lija]

Yes heats mats on a bottom of a tank for frogs are not a good idea.

Baytril has to be dropped on a back, not on a wounds, it works systemically from within frogs body.
Are you keeping frog separately in a plastic box with all 4 sides covered and not see through?

Danger of a frog not eating us that its body defences will go down, you need to try to feed it, drop crickets in, it is ok, just make sure they are well fed and not left for longer time uneaten. At this point i would do a bath with hydrolytes, something similar to pedyalyte, you should have substitutes, as long as it unflavoured you can use it. Use 9 parts of water, 1 part of electrolyte solution.

[Fabrizio]

Thank you Lija, I hope some drops I let on her wounded areas didn't add further harm; I'll stick to drop on her back and no elsewhere, onwards since now. Her tank is surrounded by black plastic, and I keep her in a dark (most of the time) room, in order to make her to rest and avoid stress, as well as consumption.
I'll try the electrolyte bath as soon as possible -I hope she will stay within, for all of the needed time...
-As to food, I can try again... I managed to force-feed the previous frog, she ingested some mealworms chrysalids (but regurgitated them when near to death, last time I fed her); however it's a very stressful and painful practice, and a sore mouth would still worsen the whole.
But if necessary I would try that, too.
I hope there are suggesions, for possible ''forced'', yet not stressful way to deliver nourishment...
-I'll keep you updated, I'll try to take a picture every some 2 days.

[Fabrizio]

P S Excuse me for OT, Lija could you please help me here, too? http://www.frogforum.net/aquatic-cla...pipa-pipa.html