Is Pig ill? :.l

[victorsgrace]

(80-85% humidity, not degrees)

[victorsgrace]

Well guys, we went to the vet yesterday and to make a long story short, the vet was very nice and it is most likely bad news - but with some luck, could be allright.

First of all I would like to strongly advise everyone to NEVER buy an amfibian of ANY kind from an expo, unless you know the exact conditions it has been captive bred under (or kept if wild caught) - ESPECIALLY not if it's from Germany!!

I know many deals end up lucky, but I seem to have caught the sort straw and I'm pt. very pissed off and very sad...


- My vet examined Pigs skin and said all indications were that he's got Mycobacteria, which can possibly also infect humans. He could have caught another bacterial infection, that's not so serious as Mycobacteria, but since it seemed to be transferred by his bloodstream, and he came from Germany, all shots were that that's what he's got. Bad news is that Germany apparently has a major break out of Mycos in their amfibian groups (I had no idea... ) and 'cause it's so spread out, most of the Myco strains from Germany are resistant to almost all sorts of antibiotics (!!) Toad kidneys are very weak towards chemicals such as antibiotics, so you can't even try different types of antibiotics, with the toads chances of surviving being very high.

IF I wanted to test Pig positive from Myco (which would only prove he has exactly that) it would cost me around 553$, where Pig is put in full sedation and a test is surgically taken. In case of Mycos, there is pt. no cure.

- The only good news here, is that she's seen a few individuals from Germany, that have developed a form of resistancy towards Mycos, where you can beat down the bacteria into a dormant state (it'll never disappear - sort of like herpes), IF kept in a completely sterile enviroment and by strenghtening their immune system, and then the animal can live a good life - but will always be a carrier for Mycos and will have to be kept alone and be kept under strict supervision, if ever put back on topsoil, for instance.
- Luck in a million... It's a mild sort of bacteria and Pig will get well with the salve we've been given.


So.... I'm SO f****** pissed off at the vendor for selling me this animal!! I care for Pig now, but fact is the bacteria might still evolve and I might have to put him down at the vets, to prevent his body rotting up, due to this bacteria.

- Right now I'm taking it all the way and keeping him in a sterile enviroment, spending 30 minutes every night cleaning everything out with antibacterial treatment from the vets, with a plastic plant, calmness and good news is his hand is not so swollen anymore, he's still eating, soaking, not lethargic at all. Bad news is he's reddish under his legs and his right theigh is till swollen...

BEST news is that Louis and Birger are not showing signs of anything (thank God!) and seem to be A.OK. And Pig seems to be okay with a plastic plant and his new surroundings - will change his beloved coconut house out tomorrow, with a newly bought plastic bowl.


Well.... enough ranting from me.... NEVER buy from a breeder you don't know about! So far it's cost me 160$ and a broken heart

[Ratz]

Hello,

so sorry to hear that

I havent heard yet that Mycobacteriosis is a major Problem in Amphibians and especially not in Germany. It is for sure a problem with ornamental fish. The risk of an infection as a Human is very low unless you are immunodeficient. All I got from my fishes during my childhood was a nasty skin rash.

I asked an expert in Amphibian diseases about Mycobacteriosis because I thought it is dangerous to have ornamental fishes and Amphibians in the same room. He told me that it's a secondary problem which only occurs under suboptimal conditions, if the animals already have other problems.

If it is a Mykobacteriosis, I would suggest to keep the toad under the best posible conditions to strengthen his immune system. But be also aware that experienced Herp Vets are very rare and that he or she didnt explicitely test for it. Were skin swabs taken to exclude other causes before suggesting a surgery under full sedation??

I hope you can save him, doesnt look bad on the pictures, except for the swellings.

[victorsgrace]

Okay. She only told me that she's treated alot of individuals, that were bought from Germany, which had this disease. (She has Agatoads herself privately).

No she didn't swab first - I'm not sure which tests she can do at her space, but she said if he was to be tested for it, he'd need to be sedated, for one of the puss filled glands to be opened to extract enough infected material to determine, if that's his condition. In DK she's the most experienced herp vet I can come by and she lives about an hour away from me. She specialises in reptiles but has experience in amfibians.

Allright. Thank you, I wasn't aware. He was a bit malnourished when I bought him, and pr. what I've read up on it, it can come from contaminated food or water, especially if the animal is underfed, stressed out and kept in not propper conditions. When I bought him he was delivered in a small, plastic box with wet toiletpaper, that he'd been on all day during the expo, without any hiding places or means of shadow. So he might aswell have been a carrier from home, or caught an airborne version directly at the expo.

Thank you - me too :./ The underside of his theighs are reddish, which concerns me most, but he's eating, active and poops as he's supposed too.
Pt. I keep him in sterile conditions, but he has a cave, a water bowl and a big, bushy plastic plant to hide in and feel normal in, so the tank isn't bare.

[Ratz]

Sorry for my scepticism in the post before - it sounds more reasonable with your further explanations. I hope you can keep the diseases on a low level. I know thats possible with fishes, but (luckily) dont have experiences with Mycobacterioses in Amphibians.

I have seen the vendors displays in Hamm, this should be no problem for a healthy animal, if its for one or two days. More problematic are suboptimal conditions and stress over long time periods. It is always a risk to buy Amphibians at expos or in the pet trade as you never know how the animal were kept before. Best is to go to a breeder directly.

Wish you good luck!

[victorsgrace]

It's allright and duely noted. I was sceptical myself at first (by the way, I mailed her earlier today and she told me the reason she didn't wan't to swob is that both testing methods are exspensive for her 'cause they send their tests to America and that the swobbing method is not as presisce and might not give her enough of a sample to conclusively estimate the bacteria culture).

Okay. Well I know that, then. I have no clue of how he's been housed "at home", but he was close to the undernourished side, when I bought him. For future means I think I'll anyway bring a real, clean fauna box with me to transport any future aquirements home.
- Yes. I agree now

Thank you! I'll post updates here now and then. We'll see how it goes.

[victorsgrace]

Hey guys. An update on Pig: he is doping allright and we're keeping the infection down as best we can.

However he hasn't pooped for close to three weeks now :/ I've tried Warming baths for up to an hour (temperated and not hurtfull to him, ofcourse) but nothings going on. There is a definite risk that his infection already is so severe that it's damaged his organs, so this could be why.

He is still feeding well and not lethargic at all.

Do any of you have any other advise to make him go?