Strange Behavior

[cjbage]

Something strange is going on with Cedar, tonight after feeding, he/she didn't eat much, he/she burrowed into a different spot, usually where I put the water dish so after cleaning it I had to put it on the opposite side, after turning on the moonlight lamp ( usually do that about an hour before I shut off all lights to go to sleep) I noticed that Cedar wasn't in the substrate but near the side of the enclosure, normally he would be settling in and relaxing. Anyway about an hour after lights out I hear the scraping noise and light banging like something is hitting a window.

I get up and Cedar is up against the side of the enclosure trying to climb out.. he has never done that in the 3 weeks I had him. I turn on his moonlight so I can see a bit clearer on what is happening thinking maybe a spider or something got in, it's starting to warm up so I have to keep an eye out in case they get in the house, anyway he hops away from the side and takes a pee, yes I could see him do it, so he moved away from that spot and I thought whatever was going on was done. Not so.. no sooner do I turn out the light and he starts scraping and banging on the same side again.

So at 3am I am changing out his substrate, scrubbing his bowl and plant, and I even went so far as to dump the jug of treated water I made yesterday as a just in case and made up a fresh jug. Well I was hoping that was going to help, I thought maybe it needed to be change from waste build up under the soil I couldn't see and that would help solve whatever it was causing him to act abnormally. Well it didn't. Again he was all over the little tank, I had reset everything back to its normal places before putting him back in there. But he is now just sitting in his dish.. and when I looked in there the water had a greenish tint to it, and it was crystal clear when I put it in and before he got in the dish. It has been about an hour and he is still sitting in that dish...he has turned from facing the wall to facing out into the room and is breathing a bit faster then normal.

Does anyone know of any reason he could all of a sudden act this way? I checked the crickets I used to feed him tonight after he refused the dubia and went so far as to trample the one or two I dropped into his feeding box tonight by accident. The crickets don't seem to be moving right either, like something is wrong with the back legs, idk if it is something to do with that or not but I just had finished cleaning out their box and changing the food and adding fresh water crystals too. In a few hours I am going to dump the lot of them and rescrub/sanitize the cricket box and then get a few dozen from the pet store and order some more from the Carolina Cricket place I ordered from before. The only other thing that has changed was that I upped the humidity in his tank from 65% to 70% but I really don't think that would cause this to happen.

Hopefully this is nothing serious as the Herp/exotics vet isn't in on weekends and the emergency rescue vet doesn't have exotic animal experience.

[WorldClassFrogCoddler]

Hey bud. Sorry your frog is having problems. But you've come to the right place. There are some EXTREMELY knowledgable folks around here who will be happy to help. I myself am no expert, so I advise you to wait for someone smarter than me to help you with this.

The experts would always like people to fill out the "Trouble in the Enclosure" questionnaire, which is the thread pinned at the very top of this category. Just hit your back button once and you will find it. Write your information in this thread and when someone who knows the answer wakes up and checks in, they will have all the information they need to give you solid, informed advice.

They'll need to know all the information about your frog's care, from it's tank size, temperature, humidity level, food, vitamins, etc. And also anything else you think of that seems relevant.

Good luck my friend.

[Namio]

Sounds like your frog was acting very active at night--that should not concern you unless some enclosure parameter is off (temperature, humidity, hydration, substrate, etc.), but I would double check all those parameter just to be sure. Regarding to the crickets, which I assume you ordered the 6-week crickets, are close to the end of their life circles, thus are starting to die. That back leg seizure means the cricket is dying and losing its mobility. Keeping the cricket tank clean, providing warmth and food will ensure longer lives of crickets.

[cjbage]

thank you for your replies, yes double checked all parameters, etc, there was a larger number then normal of the bigger crickets dead when I cleaned, I do so every few days since the container is not really huge, I have premium cricket food mixed with one of the recipes on here and it gets put in and changed regularly along with the water crystals, maybe they need more warmth, its about 75° where I keep them.

About an hour before the timer turned on the lights Cedar settled down and burrowed completely under the substrate, so hopefully you were right and he just decided to have an active night n worry the poo out of me lol crossing fingers

[cjbage]

Just in case here is this info:

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”
The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
med size critter keeper placed inside of a 10g tank with 3 sides covered

2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
1

3. Humidity
between 65% and 70% depending on if the humidifier kicked in, maintains this throughout the day using a ZooMed hygrotherm controller

4. Temperature
82° day / 77° night

5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
Dechlorinated tap ( well ) water with 2drops of Seachem prime per gallon as per Seachem site recommendation is used in water dish
humidifier uses distilled water along side of large tank not directed inside of smaller enclosure - can change this to dechlorinated tap or spring water if necessary

6. Materials used for substrate
Eco earth only- moist not wet using dechlorinated water

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
Enclosure is a med sized critter keeper with eco earth substrate (1.5 -2" depending on location ) a single silk plant and a shallow water dish, nothing new was added or changed other then location of water bowl after this cleaning since he was dug down in the substrate where the bowl normally sat. Bowl gets cleaned daily with hot water, dipped or sprayed with dechlorinated tap then refilled and placed back in, plant gets sprayed down daily w/ dechlorinated water

8. Main food source
Crickets from Carolina Crickets, have tried other food sources with no luck, going to keep trying

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
RepCal herpavite & Cal w/ D3 used on the schedule for babies posted here: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html

10. Lighting
Hidden LED with white/blue lights, on for 12hours, then just the blue on for about an hour before lights out completely

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
Zoo Med hygrotherm with a 60w CHE attached

12. When is the last time he/she ate
last night, not as much as usually does- see concern about crickets on top post

13. Have you found poop lately
has pooped about 3 days ago ( 3 total poops discoved over the last 3 weeks)

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
he/she is completely buried in the substrate atm

15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
See first posting, nothing out of the normal as far as physical changes just decided to scrape against side and try n climb out last night for hours before settling down

16. How old is the frog
unknown- only a baby, approx 2 inches STV weights 12g

17. How long have you owned him/her
3 weeks

18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred-
not sure, came from Petsmart and the label isn't marked either way

19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
right now only crickets, have tried Dubia, nightcrawler pieces and have ordered PacMan food from samurai-japan reptiles to try

20. How often the frog is handled
rarely, only during times when trying to get him to eat something other then crickets

21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
low normally.. although have had to be in the room more then normal the past 3 days

22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)
water changed every day, bowl cleaned with hot water, dipped in dechlorinated then refilled, substrate spot cleaned daily any visible waste is removed, full substrate cleaned for first time last night, only had him 3 weeks, using eco earth and fresh made dechlorinated water

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[Silkmoth]

Could it be some kind of toxin or poison? Is the dirt in the tank new? Some sick people get a kick out of putting poison in things, maybe in the dirt you bought? I know my post sounds silly, but maybe?
Anyway, I hope this turns out ok.

[DVirginiana]

Your frog sounds fine. The humidity is a little on the low side, but probably not enough to really cause problems in the short term, especially if the substrate is moist. Try to get it up to around 80% though.

I seriously doubt there are toxins or anything in the eco-earth.

If you recently rearranged or cleaned anything in the tank, your frog probably just got a little stressed. Mine spends about twenty minutes trying to climb out of her tank every time I do a thorough cleaning. I think no matter how well you wash out the cleaning chemicals, they can probably still pick up on them and are probably a little freaked out by it. Sometimes mine does it when she's uncovered herself to shed as well.

[cjbage]

The eco earth I am using is from a bag bought right after I got him, from Petco, it is the loose stuff as a full compressed brick is way to much for his current enclosure, found that out the hard way when I made up a brick and had a ton of it left in the soaking bucket, the bag was unopened and was well sealed. The only other thing I can do is hunt down a hydroponics store in my area and see if they have any coir bricks and try that.

[cjbage]

Your frog sounds fine. The humidity is a little on the low side, but probably not enough to really cause problems in the short term, especially if the substrate is moist. Try to get it up to around 80% though.

I seriously doubt there are toxins or anything in the eco-earth.

If you recently rearranged or cleaned anything in the tank, your frog probably just got a little stressed. Mine spends about twenty minutes trying to climb out of her tank every time I do a thorough cleaning. I think no matter how well you wash out the cleaning chemicals, they can probably still pick up on them and are probably a little freaked out by it. Sometimes mine does it when she's uncovered herself to shed as well.

i can definately turn up the humidity no problems with that and see how it goes

[Tankfull Tropicals]

Just a few thoughts. What did you feed it? Also is it possible that there could be an electrical short going through the substrata. Wet wires can loose small amounts of juice. I have seen this happen in a few of my fishtanks and realized it when I noticed the fish getting all excited in weird ways when the heater would come on. Hope you get it figured out! Doug

[cjbage]

Just a few thoughts. What did you feed it? Also is it possible that there could be an electrical short going through the substrata. Wet wires can loose small amounts of juice. I have seen this happen in a few of my fishtanks and realized it when I noticed the fish getting all excited in weird ways when the heater would come on. Hope you get it figured out! Doug

Lets see he gets fed crickets right now, they come from a breeder not a petstore and they are given cricket chow premium mix along with the recipe mix from http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...cket-food.html

There are no wires going into the substrate at all, the hygrotherm probe is going into the small tank and is hanging free on the side for now about 1-2" above the substrate. the lighting is from Marineland and is an aquarium safe LED system and that cord is right at the top corner of the outer tank. The CHE / lamp is on the top screen, I bought a wall shelf so will most likely set it up to hang over the tank instead of sitting on top of the screen this weekend. The only other thing that is going into the tank is the food/liquid rated safe vinyl tubing attached to the humidifier I set up. It has distilled water in it and has been running for a while now with no strange behavior seen. the tank sits on a wheeled cart about 4 inches from the wall itself, I also checked to see if there were any leaks etc around the bottom of the main tank just in case and there wasn't.

he usually pops his head up out of the substrate at about 6pm EST and gets fed at about 8 after the lights go off on his tank so we will see then, hopefully he was just irritated at me being in the room more then usual since my husband has commandeered my living room desk and only have my desk in the bedroom left to use my computer at lol.

[Mentat]

Agree with DVirginiana and other than acting stressed, the frog appears OK. Sometimes they have a day off and eat less, etc. Keep observing it's eating and any other behavioral differences. The green water after frog soaked is strange and merits attention too. Have you tried feeding not dyed night crawlers? They are an excellent source of nutrients and most frogs will eat them .

[cjbage]

yes he wouldn't take them at the time, will try again, he seems to be incredibly picky about what is being fed to him and will overlook some crickets and go after others..size maybe idk I try to match as close as possible to the spacing between his eyes when i knock the crickets into the cup to either dust or just count and transport before giving them to him. this morning I looked into this soaking dish and the water looked clear again other then the dirt that was in there from him soaking, I am wondering if it may have been a light trick, my walls are a garrish shade of yellow thanks to the previous owner of this place and the lighting at the time in there was his blue moonlight lamp lol.

[DVirginiana]

Hm, I didn't see the part about the green water after soaking. That is kind of strange... It may just be a fluke, but keep an eye on him just to be sure.

[cjbage]

he was completely buried under the substrate, something he didn't do before, I lifted up the carrier to see where he was since he never popped out like usually does, he was clear at the bottom, under about 2" of substrate, gave me the ole stink eye look when I uncovered him to eat, he ate 9 out of the 10 crickets I put with him and is now back in the water dish again, I added fresh clear treated water its really dirty now so will have to clean it again. When I looked at the water under normal lightening ( well as normal as the lights in that room can get ) it looked dirty but clear not greenish, will keep an eye on it. I raised the RH to 80% it seems to maintain it about 1-3% difference most of the time. Will pick up some Canadian nightcrawlers when I go back out and will once again try and feed him those, cut up to his correct feeding size.

[WorldClassFrogCoddler]

Well if he was feeling bad he probably wouldn't have chowed down like that so I'm less worried. Maybe he got temporarily stressed out, and is feeling better now? On the other hand my frog is lazy even by my standards, but I've read some of these guys are active enough to climb up and out of their tanks by wedging their fat little selves in the corner and struggling hard, so maybe your frog was just trying to escape?

Hope he continues to show good signs. Good luck.

[cjbage]

Well whatever was going on with him the other night didn't happen last night other then spending an inordinately long time sitting in the water dish starting at me as I sat at my computer he was even still out of the substrate this morning at lights on and I was able to get a picture..not all that great because of the cell phone but still he looks ok, just wish I could get a bit more weight on him.

[Tankfull Tropicals]

cjbage: That sounds like good news. Must have had some indigestion. Would good old Garden worms fill him out? I feed them to my Tropical fish to ripen the females for spawning.

[cjbage]

I am not sure, I will be trying to feed him worms again here in a few days when I go out again, the first time he wouldn't eat them just kept backing away from the pieces of worms each time that section would reach out n touch his face, honestly before that he probably never seen a worm in his short little life, the petstore kept him in a tiny keeper in the same bin as a water dragon, the lady I got him from told me the ones that worked in the reptile area just tosses in a few cricket sprays the tank then leaves.

So crickets is all he had known, I am going to try Dubia again also, he didn't want those either but it may have been because they were so small, he seems to bypass even smallish crickets and goes for ones about the size of the spacing between his eyes so I have to keep scooping out the small ones and putting them in a container to hopefully get them larger for him.

I also have a package of Pac Man food coming from Samurai-Reptiles Japan to try, alot of people have had good sucess with that if their pac's take to it.

His appetite seems to be ok, last night he chowed down on 11 of the crickets I put in there lol so yeah he is eating and the crickets get a decent gutload what with the premium mix and the different things that the recipe I use for additional ingredients, funny thing is they don't seem to want to eat the lettuce and shredded carrots I put in there

[Thevacantface]

Every time there is a big barometric drop, my Pyxie gets all spunky and active too. Especially when a juvenile it would bounce all over the place and bang into the terrarium sides. Haven't seen that in my pacmans yet, but they are only a few months old and we've only had 1 real low pressure system come through since I got them.