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Thread: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

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    Default 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Brief intro - I have 5 total RETF. 3 of them are currently in quarantine. 2 of those 3 are ready to be added, but due to some dissatisfaction with my current RETF tank I have decided to put together a relatively simple and basic natural style setup in a empty 18x18x24 I had laying around. The general idea is to introduce 2 of the 3 new RETF with the 2 originals when they move into the new tank. This will hopefully cause them all to pay more attention to the new digs and less to the fact there are strangers amongst them.

    Basic idea - If you followed my 40B build on this forum than the layout till be similar for the substrate (minus the big slate rocks). The bottom of the tank will have 3 - 4 inches of water with a 1 inch layer of Dirt and aquatic soil on the bottom. The water will have leaves and sticks in it to simulate the bottom of a pond, lake, etc. The water will be populated with Ghost shrimp. The water section will receive very little maintenance and the Shrimp will be left to their own devices with very sparse external feeding sources put in for them other than the naturally occurring algae. The land mass(es) will comprise of 3 pots for plants that have no openings below the wage reline (this will prevent the soil in the pots from becoming swamp. The soil in the pots will be seeded with springtails. Some wood accents will be added as will a stand to place the feeding bowl on. Primary water source will be the aquatic section for the frogs (but I will be prepared to introduce a water bowl if they look like they want another option).

    This build is already well on it's way and I decided to do a post a bit late. The below picture is of the tank with the aquatic section completed and the water cycling a bit. It has been running for 24 hours now and I will let it continue to cycle without shrimp for another 48 hours. The main center plant is in place and pots have been put in for some Snake Plant/Pothos. The wood for the tank is on order and will be here next week hopefully. This tank will also be setup (in the near future) to double as a rain chamber. I am considering letting the tadpoles hatch and live in the aquatic section and then remove the froglets when they morph and climb out. Though that is subject to change if I suspect I will have any issues with it.

    Here is a pic of the tank while I was adding the leaves and sticks to the Aquatic section prior to adding the water. I will take more pics tomorrow. The tank is right across from the M. Betsileo tank and I am leaving them alone in the dark as much as possible to help them settle faster.



    The flower pot in the front right is where the food bowl will sit. I have cut holes in the sides of this pot to allow water to flow through it and give the shrimp a bit more room to explore.

    Note: The center plant was picked up from Home Depot for $2.00 and was near death. I nursed it back to health.. well mostly, Rinsed the roots off good and processed it in bleach water for 15mins. I am not sold on the plant as the center piece for this tank, but it will do until the local nurseries stock up.

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Water cycling has completed and the shrimp have been added. A couple of the shrimp I bought were carrying eggs so her is hoping we get some baby shrimp soon (15 total Ghost Shrimp were added to the tank).

    Now we wait for the rest of the supplies to arrive. Then we plant the rest of the tank



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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Well the wood for this build is on back order. hoping I have it in hand sometime next week. Until then this will sit with 15 shrimp and let the aquatic section settle in and start working itself out.

  5. #4

    Default 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    How is wood on back order? Lol

    Sadly, you won't see any juvenile shrimp. The larvae of grass shrimp need brackish water to survive. They are a weird shrimp, compared to all the other freshwater species.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    The wood is a Manzanita Branch, well 2 of them. They aren't tech on back order, but they are getting a new shipment of them in at the end of the week and wanted to wait for it so they could pick me out some better pieces.

    I am hoping the tannins from the leaves and sticks make the water suitable for the shrimp to breed in, but if not than no big loss. I will just keep restocking it as needed. Everything I have read online says that my setup should work. I will have a high mortality rate in the baby shrimp, but I am not looking to mass breed to sale them I am just looking to keep the tank populated.

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Ok this tank is down. The original plant was tossed, the stems were not strong enough to support the adult RETF. they leaves would bend down and touch the water then they got on them. I ditched the Pot Idea, mainly because it was a pain keeping them from floating. I instead used a Large Pyrex mixing bowl with a couple rocks in the bottom to anchor it in place then planted it with 3 Snake Plants, 4 Pothos clippings, and that one plant my wife picked up the other day.

    Anyways here is the final layout. I may add another platform for feedings or for a water bowl, but here is how it stands for now.



    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Hi Paul! The water is very cloudy which could make observing shrimp and removing any dead ones or uneaten food difficult. Also, think your RETFs would benefit from some foliage higher in the enclosure to help them feel safe. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Yeah the water was cloudy for the photo because I had to move some of the soil around. The vines will eventually make it up closer to the top of the tank, but in the other tank our RETF stayed on the Snake plant and never spent a lot of time up near the top. As thing grow in more it should provide them will more cover options.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  10. #9

    Default 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    That is definitely a different look. I like it! Why did you choose to go with a water base?
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Bill,

    The water base was chosen because I would like to use this tank as rain chamber down the road. I also was experimenting with a different take on a tree frog tank. I really like the natural look to the Mantella tank I did so I am trying to apply that in various ways to other tanks going forward. I also wanted to heat the tank using an aquatic heater. They are cheaper than heat emitters and hoods for them. I know You could build a false bottom and place an aquatic heater in it, but I am trying to use as little artificial products in these tanks as possible.

    Originally I was going to do several pots in the water, but it was a huge pain to weight them down enough to keep them from floating. I decided to go with the glass bowl so all the soil was in one container so hopefully the Springs will keep booming and not flock to the water surface like they are in the Mantella tank lol.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Interesting. It's pretty, though the branches look sharp. They leap so quick. My thoughts are.... Leap...impale right onto sharp point. Yikes!

    There is a trick you can do... Plastic coated wire thread into nylon rope. We braid our ropes to make them wider. Coat them in 100% silicone (brown) and then roll them in Eco earth substrate. You can make any "tree" you like. Be sure to coat the ends well.

    Plants... Pothos are great. Snake plants are nice and solid but will eventually rot if kept wet. They should be planted in well-drained areas. Try some mature Chinese evergreens or philodendrons. They hold their weight well.
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

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    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build





    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Those branches look great Heather! The ticks used in the tank is a whole branch that was cut from Manzanita, there are some smaller twigs, but none of the ends come to a point. I hope no one gets impaled, but I am operating under the "This exists in nature" theory. My Reds only leap if they are startled and we do our best to stay out of the enclosure when they are awake, but only time will tell if I made an awful mistake.

    Its to soon in this tank to make a call one way or the other. Everyone is still very stressed from the move into the new tank. The 2 bigger Reds have not woken up yet tonight for any longer than they needed to shed then they went right back to sleep. The 3 little ones are up and moving around. I put 2 food bowls in the tank, one with medium crickets and one with small crickets. I don't think they have found them yet lol.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Well the frogs are starting to look more and more at home in the tank. I don't think they are settled in yet, but they have started exploring. So far they all prefer the water in the bottom of the tank for soaking to the water bowl. I have setup 2 platforms for feeding and water (I fill the platform with water and then set a small bowl of crickets in the middle). It is hard to tell who is eating what with 5 frogs in there, but I have not observed any fighting. You can tell they are very aware of the population increase and are still trying to figure out how to deal with it.

    On a side note, and I think this is very interesting. A couple of the little frogs will dive off the land bowl into the water and swim to the other side of the tank and then climb out. At first I thought it was because they didn't know it was full of water, but they seem to enjoy doing it. I even saw one of our bigger ones lower itself all the way into the water and swim a bit before exiting. Seems to go against the "Not good swimmer" statements you hear sometimes about the Reds, though they are not graceful swimmers like the Mantellas I have are.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    I am going to be changing some things with this build. The over all layout will remain mostly the same. I am going to replace the Bowel in the water with some rocks and a land mass over the water. The bowel is just causing some concerns over swamping out the soil and I want to spread the plants out a bit more. The rocks will allow for drainage and will give me more surface area to work with. I want to keep the water feature in some respect. Heating the tasks with the aquatic heater has worked out great so far and is much more affordable than using other sources. The main thing I have noticed so far is that the water does evaporate quickly due to the largely vented screen top... I have to add roughly a gallon of water a week to the tank. I will be pulling the frogs out in the next week or so to clean the tank anyways and will make the adjustments while they are in the temp holding tank while the cleaning is done.

    They LOVE the limbs in the tank. They climb all over them when they wake up. They have been seen lowering themselves all the way down into the water. The bigger to Reds we have will actually get all the way in the water and stand on the bottom and just soak. They have a water dish as well (and do use it) but they all seem to prefer the water feature more.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    100+ Post Member kueluck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Problem with this "theory" is that the mortality rate is high in nature and we try to avoid that in captivity.
    Rest in peace Rosie 5-31-12
    Rest in peace Rufus 2-7-14
    Rest in peace Morph 8-14-15


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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    I agree that we want our pets to live as long as possible, but I disagree 100% with sterilizing the environment to do that. I would not put any of my pets in harms way intentionally, but I also allow my dog to run around the yard without a leash on. I know you weren't trying to offend me and I am not upset. I just think it is important to simulate their natural environment as much as we can in the terrarium.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    100+ Post Member kueluck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    The intent was not to upset you, but stating a fact. Since we choose to keep animals in our home we need to supply the safest environment to them. I for one sand down all edges and corners of wood products that are used. If I purchase something glass or ceramic, I make sure to run my fingers over all areas to make sure there isn’t a catch on it. If I bring something from outside into the vivs I make sure to clean and sterilize it. It’s our responsibility as amphibian caretakers to provide them with a safe sanctuary.
    Rest in peace Rosie 5-31-12
    Rest in peace Rufus 2-7-14
    Rest in peace Morph 8-14-15


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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    Gail,

    I don't disagree that we need to be sure we are providing the animals in our care with a safe environment for them to live in. This can be applied to any animal and not just to Amphibians or Reptiles. I personally feel that simulating nature as much as possible is a glass cube in my basement is the best way to accomplish this. I know not everyone agrees with me on this and that is totally fine, but it does not make the people who push the envelope of the "accepted norm" any more right or wrong than those who do things the traditional more standard ways. I too take great care in ensuring I am setting up the environments to suite the animals needs as much as possible. Including more of nature in a terrarium does not mean the environment is not safe for them.

    I appreciate your view and opinion and respectfully disagree with the implication that this "theory" is any more unsafe than the way you have described how you do things.

    I think your last post show you care for the animals in your care and that is what matters most in all of this. We all care, or we wouldn't be on this forum posting our successes, failures, problems, and solutions.

    Paul.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Default Re: 18x18x24 RETF - Natural Style - Build

    This tank underwent a large repair today. Rocks were bought for a base to replace the bowl. The Bowl idea was sound in theory, but showed some major weaknesses as it was in use. The total cost for the rocks was $10.00.

    The frogs were removed and the tank was taken outside and cleaned from top to bottom. After the rocks had been cleaned I started putting the tank together.


    Here is the rock in the tank after playing with the layout some.


    Forgive the blueness in the photos. I had a setting wrong on my camera and caught it later in the build.



    A few more tweaks to the little rocks on the top of the slab and the branches added in (the branches were also cleaned between the old setup and this one)



    A close up of the little cubby I made for the water bowl.



    First handfuls of Damp AMG Mix added to the tank.



    Moss was added around the edges to keep the ABG mix contained so I could build it up enough to put plants in it and keep the Soil from falling off into the water.



    Plants added. Most of the Pothos was left out. I felt the tank was to crowded to add them all back in. I am thinking of getting some sphagnum moss and tying it and some Pothos up on the tree in few places, but I haven't decided yet.



    Side view.



    Here is hoping this one works out better than the bowl idea lol.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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