Something seems wrong with my Whites Tree Frog

[froggerbert]

Hi there.

I am starting to have some concerns about my Whites Tree Frog, Loki, because it appears to me that he may be sick. He seemed fine a few days ago, but yesterday I started to notice that something is off about his body shape...his belly is fairly fat looking, but his back is very thin and bony. Nothing else seems to be different about his appearance. His coloring and texture appear fine. I also noticed that he hasn't been eating hardly anything and I haven't found any droppings in his tank for several days. He really has only been laying in his water dish and doesn't really react to crickets, the tank being sprayed, or noise of any other form like he used to. He has not been doing any climbing at all. He is also no longer active and hunting at night.

I keep Loki (alone) in a 10 gallon tank with a screen top and coconut substrate. All of his plants are artificial from the pet store. I keep his tank at about 85 degrees during the day and 65 degrees at night. I monitor his humidity to stay at a high moderate at all times. He has both a heat lamp and a UVB lamp. He gets fresh water in his dish daily. I use tap water with ReptiSafe conditioning drops. I feed him 15 medium sized crickets every couple of days and most of the time he hasn't completely finished the old ones before I feed him new ones. The crickets are calcium dusted every other feeding. I currently do not breed my own crickets, but purchase them fresh from the pet store every few days. I clean up any droppings whenever I find them in the tank. I NEVER handle him, as he is too afraid to be held.

I have only had him for almost 2 months now and am very worried that something is very wrong. He was supposedly only a baby when I got him. I know that whites tree frogs aren't an incredibly active species anyway, but the fact that he doesn't seem to be eating anything and that his back seems so thin even though he has a chubby belly, is very concerning. I'm hoping that someone can offer me some advice on what may be wrong with him and if there is anything I can do to help him. I thought that I was doing everything right with him

I will try to post a picture sometime soon, but the lighting in the room isn't that great (other than in his tank, but it's hard to get a good camera angle in the tank) and I don't really want to mess with him if I can avoid it.

[kueluck]

65 is to low at night time, no lower than 72 at night.
Doesn't need the UVB and I don't know if using one will cause any issues or not.
You want the humidity 50-60%
Besides calcium they need a multi vitamin. I use Repashy Supervite.
Give a variety of foods, wax and/or butter worms, roaches, moths if you can catch them, or night crawlers, stay away from ones called red wiggles and trout worms.


For now see if your local pet store has butter or wax worms, that will help put some weight on and also helps with pooping.


FYI, he'll out grow that 10 gallon quick. A 30 gallon vertical or Exo Terra 18x18x24 would be more fitting for him.

[froggerbert]

Thank you for your response.

I was told at the pet store that I would need a UVB light, so that's why I use it, but I also know that it says it is just recommended, but not required. I had not used one with my frogs in the past, however. I was also told that he was too young for worms at the moment, but I have been thinking about trying them every now and then so that he has more than just the crickets. I'm not sure if he would eat them right now or not since he seems uninterested in food.

The dust I use is a mixture of both the calcium and the vitamins. I can't think of the brand at the moment.

I usually keep the humidity at about 70%. The temperature at night normally ranges anywhere between 65-70 degrees and often changes with the temperature of my house, but I will warm it up a bit for him at night.

I have been thinking about upgrading his tank here soon because he does seem to be needing more room to move around and hunt for the crickets. I would like to see his condition improve first though before I disturb him with a move.

[GreenTree]

Hi Michelle,

Can you post photos of him in his current condition please? Im not noticing anything that sticks out at me. 68 degrees is the lowest temp for them at night in their natural climate in australia. ( I looked at the stats yesterday) There is an appitite stimulant that can be perscribed If need be.

-GreenTree

[kueluck]

When any of my toads, AGTF, Grey's or WTF's seem off even a little, they can't seem to resist a big ol' fat butter or wax worm. As for the calcium & multivitamin, I'm old school on that and give it to them on separate days. And I agree, don't move him until he is back up and running full speed, no reason to add stress to the little one. It's also possible that the low temps may have slowed Loki down. Bring the temps up a little and see how he responds to that. Pictures really do help out a lot so if you can get some posted, please do.

[froggerbert]

Alright, I finally managed to get some pictures. It looks to me like he's getting really thin from not eating, but I can't get him to take worms or crickets.

[kueluck]

I would seek Vet attention now. Have you tried to force feed him? Not sure what else to do. Poor baby.

[froggerbert]

What's weird to me is that sometimes he looks that thin and sometimes he doesn't. Last night he was laying on his log looking all chubby and normal, but then this morning he looked like this again. There's always a possibility he has eaten some of the crickets in there when I have not seen it, but it doesn't appear that way. Very odd symptoms. I will definitely look for a vet in my area that can check him out. I'm very worried about him!

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I highly recommend the bowl method of feeding so you can keep a count on how many crickets there are.
and it keeps them from getting hidden in the enclosure and possibly biting your frog
I would also use larger crickets , your Loki is large enough to handle adult crickets.
I ran out of large crickets once and had some small ones for my baby toad that I was rehabbing and offer those but they didn't bother with the small crickets.

A 3 inch diameter 2 inch deep glass or ceramic bowl buried level with the substrate works great.
(a white bowl is the best as it allows the feeders contrast with the white and makes it easier for the frog to see the feeders unless they are dusted with calcium.)

if you have to force feed it can be done but it best done as a two person operation onc person to hold the frog and use a plastic spoon turned upside down and gently slid from the edge of the mouth to the front in-between its lips.
The other person with a cricket , better a wax worm. in a pair of tongs insert gently into the frogs mouth and let the frog close it mouth on the spoon and remove the spoon.
Hopefully the frog won't spit out the food.

When a neighbor of mine that had a 2 year old pack man frog that was refusing to eat after almost 3 weeks and lost 30g.
I used that method to force feed pac man food that was mixed with 3x the normal water so it was more of a jelly than a dough ball.
I loaded a large syringe(with out needle) it worked great.
I just had to be careful not to squirt too much or it would make the frog choke and possibly aspirate. (trust me not a good thing.)
But the frog closed both its eyes and pointed its head straight up and did a big swallow.
being that it is a jelly the frog has no choice but to swallow some if it.

Good luck

[froggerbert]

I highly recommend the bowl method of feeding so you can keep a count on how many crickets there are.
and it keeps them from getting hidden in the enclosure and possibly biting your frog
I would also use larger crickets , your Loki is large enough to handle adult crickets.
I ran out of large crickets once and had some small ones for my baby toad that I was rehabbing and offer those but they didn't bother with the small crickets.

A 3 inch diameter 2 inch deep glass or ceramic bowl buried level with the substrate works great.
(a white bowl is the best as it allows the feeders contrast with the white and makes it easier for the frog to see the feeders unless they are dusted with calcium.)

if you have to force feed it can be done but it best done as a two person operation onc person to hold the frog and use a plastic spoon turned upside down and gently slid from the edge of the mouth to the front in-between its lips.
The other person with a cricket , better a wax worm. in a pair of tongs insert gently into the frogs mouth and let the frog close it mouth on the spoon and remove the spoon.
Hopefully the frog won't spit out the food.

When a neighbor of mine that had a 2 year old pack man frog that was refusing to eat after almost 3 weeks and lost 30g.
I used that method to force feed pac man food that was mixed with 3x the normal water so it was more of a jelly than a dough ball.
I loaded a large syringe(with out needle) it worked great.
I just had to be careful not to squirt too much or it would make the frog choke and possibly aspirate. (trust me not a good thing.)
But the frog closed both its eyes and pointed its head straight up and did a big swallow.
being that it is a jelly the frog has no choice but to swallow some if it.

Good luck

Thank you for the advice! I was wondering how I might go about force feeding if need be, so thank you for the tip. I've never had a problem getting a Whites to eat before so I wasn't quite sure what to do, though I do wonder if there is also something else going on with him. Getting him to eat would be a great start though.

[Mentat]

Please read this, you need to know about your frog's needs: Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea. This might help you locate a good veterinary and once you do, please take frog in as soon as possible: Arav or Herp Vet Connection.

In the meantime, recommend move frog to a hospital like enclosure with damp (dechlorinated water) unprinted paper towels for substrate. In there you can have a couple sterile branches, water dish, and some silk foliage to reduce stress.

Get a bottle of unflavored Pedialyte or similar baby electrolyte to prepare a bath. You will mix 90% 80F dechlorinated tap water with 10% Pedialyte. Using a small critter keeper or plastic bowl with holed up top; bath frog in chin deep solution for 20-30 minutes. Can cover with a small towel to calm frog and hold temperature longer. Then return to enclosure and try to feed.

Night crawlers (not dyed from Walmart or a local bait shop) are an excellent food. Crickets should be sized same as distance between frog's eyes and gut loaded with carrots, lettuce, and crushed oats or cherios for 24-48 hours before feeding frog. Feed in early evening when frog is active and remove any uneaten crickets in the morning. For more info and schedules for dietary supplements, read this: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html. Hope it gets better and good luck !

[GreenTree]

I had one of my whites look like this and did not survive. It died 2 days later from impaction. If you feel the inners (GENTLY) Do you feel any foreign object? By the looks of the frog is far from basic herp care and needs vet assistance. Im sorry. I cant help you on my end. GET YOUR FROG TO A VET!!! PROMPTLY!!

Best Wishes,

GreenTree