Sick WTF - Green Spots???

[IgbyKibbits]

Hello everyone -

As you've seen in my other thread, little Kibbits is really sick : (. He is now in a sterile quarantine tank, getting antibiotics and lamisil baths each day. After taking him to the vet (and having the vet concerned about the spots), we read a lot more about the dreaded "neon green spots." Luckily, Kibbits doesn't have as many as the those in the pictures, so hopefully we can still fight this.

Has anyone else had experience with this on a WTF? Is this Chytrid?

Irregardless, I'll keep you updated with this tobramycin/lamisil treatment. We are going to start a 10-day lamisil treatment on Igby as well, especially given the chance it is a fungus. I know she isn't going to be happy being in her own quarantine, but I don't want to risk losing her too.

Also, any suggestions for feeding? Kibbits is still not eating, so last night I tried to give him some Flukers critical care. Of course, he refused to open his mouth and not wanting to stress him more, I didn't want to force his him (by handling him and trying to gently open his mouth with the syringe). Anything more I can do?

Thank you so much for all the support. We would have surely lost him without you guys!!! I've heard from three vets already saying they don't know what it is : (

[John]

Where are you reading about these neon green spots? Chytrid is usually not something you can "see", and the vast majority of cases of pets supposedly dying from Chytrid are bogus. Post a photograph of the frog please. In all likelihood, if the frog is sick it has something aside from Chytrid. A trip to an amphibian-savvy vet will be necessary to treat most amphibian diseases.

[IgbyKibbits]

John -

We drove our little guy two hours north to see the only vet we could find who would take a look at an amphibian (he usually sees reptiles). Unfortunately, he didn't know what was wrong and had not seen this before. He even consulted with a vet network, and could find no information. He is the one who prescribed the tobramycin, and suggested (echoing Kurt) a lamisil bath. This is where I'm reading about the green spot issue: http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?...2337&page=0#14

They have a lot of threads about white's showing up with those mysterious mint green spots, with strange, excessive shedding, lethargy and loss of appetite which is exactly what Kibbits is presenting with.

Here are the a few pictures of Kibbits with his green spots. He has probably 20 (increased over the last week) tiny spots. You can see the comparison from the normal white spots to the mint green spots. Sorry for the lack of better pictures. I don't want to stress him more by handling him to get better ones. (Oh, and just a note - he is no longer on substrate. Those pictures were taken on Saturday prior to moving him to a quarantine tank).

If you have an idea of what it might be, please let me know. We just want to make sure we are doing the right thing for our little guy!

[IgbyKibbits]

In the "sitting in the pond picture," you can kind of see the comparison with the white to mint green spots. I know it's hard to tell in these pictures. I apologize!

[Kurt]

Continue the treatments that you are already doing, but I am wondering if it may be a reaction to the bark substrate, as I have never used it with amphibians.

[IgbyKibbits]

That's what we were thinking too. Whether it was infected, or a reaction, everything else that we have in the tank, we are meticulous about sterilizing! Every month, we pull everything out and sterilize, first with a mild bleach wash, then again with Jurassi Clean and extremely hot water.

Since getting the frogs a year ago, we've used T-Rex Coconut Bark (as a filler), and then topped with T-Rex Jungle Bed. Last time we cleaned (a week ago), we had to use T-Rex Cypress because they were out of Jungle Bed (but we'll get that as soon as it is in). However, he was showing these symptoms/spots before we made the switch.

What do you think? What do you suggest instead? Thanks again! You guys are truly helping me save this frog. I literally had a vet say to me (whom I called describing the problem, and asking if she'd see him), "You are unlikely to find a veterinarian in the Midwest that has seen the specific disease that your pet has given that few owners of amphibians in this area actually take their sick ones to the vet. " : (

So sad!

[dumpy]

mine has little green specs to am i able to send u a picture also??

[andaroo]

One of my white's had the green spots and was very lethargic and stopped eating. I really thought she wasn't going to make it. I treated her with methylene blue 2% (from walmart pharmacy it came as 2%) I twisted a piece of paper towel and dipped it in the bottle and then rubbed it all over her back and legs and underneath on her belly. I then put about half an inch of water on the bottom of her quarantine container then dipped another papertowel in methylene blue and then swished that into that water then i put a thick layer of papertowel down so it soaked up the methylene blue/water mix so she would sit on it. Then in her water dish I put tap water treated with the right amounts of aqua plus and cycle(adds good bacteria to water) and then put 10 sprays from a mister of F10 antiseptic (diluted to 0.14ml to 200ml) You can also "wash" a frog in this too without any issues. Have tried this with more sensitive frogs like the red eyed tree frog too. Anyway after about a week she perked up and looked her normal self again with no spots and she became her greedy self again and ate. Then the spots came back a couple of days later so I retreated her again for another 2 weeks and now she is back to normal. Obviously the initial 1 week of treatment wasn't long enough. Sorry the quantities of medication aren't specific and sound like "a little bit of this and a little bit of that" but whatever it worked for my frog... maybe I'm onto something?

[Mentat]

mine has little green specs to am i able to send u a picture also??

Hello and welcome to FF! This is a very old thread. Recommend you start a new one in this section describing your frog and set-up by copying, pasting, and answering the below questions in your thread. Thank you !

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”

The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
16. How old is the frog
17. How long have you owned him/her
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
20. How often the frog is handled
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[Leefrogs]

I had written someone else who's frog had green spots, he was 69efan69. He also wrote responce on my page. Spots could also be just an irritation also. They shed often, if spots stay I'd worry. But do a search on his posts, but I beileive I wrote him cuz thread had no end result/answer.

[IgbyKibbits]

DEFINITIVE ANSWER:

It's been a long time since I've written! I was out of the country for many months working, and then trying to get back in the swing of things.

Unfortunately, my two original frogs did not make it. After their passing, we did do a necropsy on the frogs, and they were both diagnosed with lungworms. Lung worms are a particularly horrible type of parasite that have a cyclical type of presentation in a frog. In other words, doing routine fecal samples does not always catch them. Frogs can get lungworms from exposure to already sickened frogs. We highly suspect that our two frogs got the lungworms before we even purchased them and brought them home from the store. This is why it is SO important to get your frogs from reputable breeders!!!

Here's the sad thing: lungworms are relatively easy to treat when they are caught at an early state. If you have a vet (if not, I highly recommend finding someone) I suggest doing a round of fecal samples. We did our fecal samples (for our new frogs) 3 times, in a month...about once every week. This way, we could try to catch any parasites, no matter the "cycle" they were in.

Please let me know, if you can, where you got your frog and how old he is. The irony, that we found out, is that younger frogs can live a long time with lungworms. Our frogs were almost a year when they passed away! The reason is because as babies, the lungworms are, in a sense, themselves "babies." They have not gone through enough cycles to overwhelm the frogs system. Hence, as they get older, the infestation also gets worse.

The sick frogs symptoms were as follows: always shedding, bright green spots (this is because of the weakened immune system!!! Imagine it like people who are very sick, and how they bruise really easily!), coughing type sounds, keeping the mouth open, not eating, lethargy.

As you can imagine, the lungworms make it very difficult for the little frog to breath.

Anyway, that's what happened with our two original frogs. I am happy to report that we now have three very healthy, very active, very personable frogs that constantly want attention and eat too much :P Oh, and in case anyone else reads this, we've found that green spots are just that...bruises in a sense. Just take it from our little frog Ori. He's constantly sliding among vines, hanging upside down and leaping precariously from branch to branch. Almost every night he has a different "green spot," but they go away usually within 24 hours...just like a bruise would.

HOPE THIS HELPS!!!

[switchpath]

Thank you for your detailed and informative reply! I'm sorry to hear your little guys didn't make it; it's amazing how attached we can become to these amphibians!

Its interesting to learn that the neon green spots are just bruises and not a symptom of some sort of infection. The thing is my case they just showed up about two days ago. Ten or twenty neon green spots and because of his ailment, what ever it is, he hasn't really moved much at all.

Thank you for listing the other symptoms your's had. I'm fairly confident he doesn't have lungworms. He's had no excessive shedding, coughing sounds or anything funky going on around his mouth like I've seen with other frogs in the past. Although he doesn't move much, isn't eating and his eyelids are closed most of the time. In fact he to wipe them with his front foot for them to open. Interestingly when I move him to his lamisil bath he seems pretty alert and will crawl around on me. I'm at a loss and unfortunately business has been slow and I have literally zero extra cash to take him to the vet. :/ For not I'm just going to stick to the quarantine and lamisil baths and the occasional food offering.

I actually picked him up at a Petco. I know I know the large franchise pet stores are horrible with their live animals most of the time, but at this one has a fairly knowledgeable reptile and amphibian employee I've gotten to know. The first few frogs I had died from some internal parasite and we chalked that up to them being wild caught specimens. This one came from a batch of captive bread frogs. If he ends up passing I'm definitely going to hook up with a vet and have the fecal exams done on a regular basis.

My best educated guess at this point is that he's doing poorly because I failed (in spite of all my research) to implement a lighting cycle. Being in Wisconsin with the wild seasonal swings in day length and indirect sunlight being his main source of determining his day, I think he got stressed out. The stress caused him to stop eating, which depressed his immune system enough for a normally harmless bacteria or fungi to take hold. I'm crossing my fingers at this point kicking myself in the ***!

[Dog Shrink]

I'm sorry to hear about your bout with lung worm. Isn't it amazing a parasite that usually infects hoses and cattle can affect such a small animal. My great dane actually once had a bout with lung worm but after a couple rounds of panacure he was better but with some residual lung damage that made him continue to cough until he passed of degeneritive cardio myopthy. I'm sure some of the coughing at that point could have been contributed to the heart ailment but there was damage from the long term undiagnosed lungworm. Like you said, cysts aren't shed in every fecal, and it is very difficult to catch them, much like giardia and coccidia, but thankfully (in mammals anyway) treatment is usually effective and reasonable.