New RETF Owner

[Danish]

So I've been researching how to care for a red tree frog for about 2 months now prior to getting the frog so I can know what I'm doing. I've just started setting everything up but cannot figure out how to raise the temperature during the night/day. Also I'd like your input on the general set up. I've spent around $300 on the set up alone and want to stay economical from here on out. I'm on the east coast so it can get kinda cold in the house. I have a 18x18x24 exo terra with drainage, barrier, and joshs abg mix. I have 6 live plants that I also got from Josh but they're still small and haven't reached their climax yet, so not much there for the frog. So I have 2 big fake plants for the frog to climb on.

After I put in the substrate I moistened it with cold water and also mist with cold water. I got an exo terra compact top that only fits 40 Watt incandescent bulbs, so I've been using 2 exo terra 40 Watt daylight lamps. My temperature stays in the low 70s and I wanted to get it higher.

Also noticed the humidity tanks with the bulbs on.. Can get to low 40, but with the lights off it stays in the high 70s. So what's the best way to heat up my vivarium? Also the bulbs I'm using only emit UVA, is that good enough for plants? Or do they also need UVB? They get no sunlight.

Im also trying an under tank heater but so far it doesn't seem to do much. I'm using the exo terra digital for readings. I wanna have everything under control so I can finally get my frog! Sorry for being all over the place and having no organization with my questions lol. Thanks.

[DigitalPunk]

Danish welcome to the forums!

I have the same exo terra you have and had near the identical setup you have with it when i first got my 2 Red Eyed Tree Frogs. I had the same issues with the lights killing the humidity. I switched to using a Ceramic Heat Emitter <CHE>. I bought a 100w one so it could easily heat the 18x18x24 without needing to have the CHE on 24/7 and without it struggling to recover from heat drops. I also purchased a ZooMed HydroTherm to control the CHE. The HydroTherm also allows you to program daytime and nighttime temps. This allows you to simulate night time temp drops. The CHE also does not kill the humidity in the tank.

I then got rid of the eco terra light hood and replaced it with an LED light system. I got mine on sale at Petco, but you can get them cheap from this website also. The LED lights provide deeper light penetration in the terrarium and honestly make all the colors in the space more natural. The LED lights also do not hurt the humidity in the terrarium.

The Zoomed Hydrotherm can control humidity as well, but I do not use that feature. I have my misting system setup on a timer and through trial and error have the misting schedule nailed down.


Hope this is helpful in some way

[Danish]

Thanks. The only reason I haven't tried a CHE yet is because I can't put it in the top due to high wattage and I already have a night bulb in an independent lamp with its own switch. Unless the CHE maintains temperatures along the night? Then I can get rid of the night bulb.

[DigitalPunk]

Thanks. The only reason I haven't tried a CHE yet is because I can't put it in the top due to high wattage and I already have a night bulb in an independent lamp with its own switch. Unless the CHE maintains temperatures along the night? Then I can get rid of the night bulb.

The CHE produces radiant heat with out producing any light so it can be used at night as well. RETF hate any sort of light at night. I have been trying to get mine to be ok with some Blue LED lights to simulate night time, but they just go right back to sleep.

The CHE is the best method I have tried to heat the terrarium the RETF are in, I love it!

As bill said it is also a good idea to cover most of the screen top up with some glass or plastic. On my 18x18x24 I have the back part of the screen covered with glass and then the front part has glass on it except for a 4" wide section where the CHE is sitting

This will help lock in Humidity and heat.

[Danish]

I ordered a CFE. How long do you usually keep it on a day and around what times? Thanks a lot for your help.

[DigitalPunk]

Mine turns on off and on throughout the day automatically. The ZooMed Hydrotherm turns it on and off when it hits the ranges I programed into it. The Hydro therm is a bit pricey but prob the best purchase I made for the tank initially.

[deranged chipmunk]

First off, welcome to the forum!!

You can always modify the top by removing the screen and replacing it with plexiglass to keep humidity in. Start with two panels and check. Also, if you are using a dial style, analog hygrometer, throw it out, they are rarely, if ever, accurate. Get yourself a digital one with probe, then reevaluate. You'll probably find your parameters are not as bad as you think they are.

[Danish]

First off, welcome to the forum!!

You can always modify the top by removing the screen and replacing it with plexiglass to keep humidity in. Start with two panels and check. Also, if you are using a dial style, analog hygrometer, throw it out, they are rarely, if ever, accurate. Get yourself a digital one with probe, then reevaluate. You'll probably find your parameters are not as bad as you think they are.

I'm using a digital exo terra with probe.

[Mentat]

I've made some comments below. Due to frog breeding cycles sometimes you have to wait a bit for their availability. It's a far better choice to wait than to get them from a questionable or unknown source. Many experienced members in here have nightmare stories when they started with unhealthy RETFs. From your description see that you are setting a vivarium for them. Do you have a separate quarantine enclosure available? If not and the RETFs contaminate the enclosure; you will have to get rid of everything that can't be sterilized. You can read more about quarantine in here: http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html.

By the way; have you ever thought of keeping lower temperature frogs in there? That would reduce/eliminate your temperature issues. Some of the hardier Dart frogs or more temperate tree frogs come to mind. Good luck !

...After I put in the substrate I moistened it with cold water and also mist with cold water. I got an exo terra compact top that only fits 40 Watt incandescent bulbs, so I've been using 2 exo terra 40 Watt daylight lamps. My temperature stays in the low 70s and I wanted to get it higher.
One of the limitations of the ExoTerra top; think they built that in to match their compact fluorescent lights.

Also noticed the humidity tanks with the bulbs on.. Can get to low 40, but with the lights off it stays in the high 70s. So what's the best way to heat up my vivarium?
It depends on how big is the temperature differential between the room and the desired enclosure temperature. You can use a combination of lamp heat and a side located heat mat/heat tape and a thermostat controller for most cases.

Also the bulbs I'm using only emit UVA, is that good enough for plants? Or do they also need UVB? They get no sunlight.
Plants do not need UVB; they need light that peaks at 5,600K color temperature.

Im also trying an under tank heater but so far it doesn't seem to do much.
Do not place heat sources below the tank, lights on top and heat mat/tape on the side only. You can leave the ExoTerra with compact fluorescents on top; but be aware those lights are short lived (read an average of 6 months) and might consider replacing with LEDs in future. Bad thing is that LEDs produce even less heat. Would recommend closing all open screen areas with aluminum foil now. When there is a large temperature differential between an enclosure and the room temp the heat loss through any opening is going to tax any heating you apply to the enclosure as it acts as a room heater too. Once you get parameters dialed in you can then replace aluminum foil with more permanent glass or plastic...

[Eric and Stitch]

Hydrtherm is awesome if you're not using a mister for the humidity side of things. after a month of drowning crickets in my bowl feeding method I gave up on the hydrotherm. my current setup has an aquatic section with an over sized water heater and I keep the water temp at about 78*F This keeps humidity up and temps pretty stable.

Also, Insulate! If you have a side or back, or bottom of the tank that is against a wall, covered with decorations ect, get some insulation on it, like Styrofoam or pink builders foam from Menards. You dont need a supper thick piece, just cover the glass. Single pane glass lets heat escape pretty fast like a computer heat sink, keep in mind you cannot insulate over heat tape/pad/cord and the such, but if you have an overhead radiant heat system on a thermostat, insulating will reduce heat loss and reduce energy loss. Ideally you want a system balanced so that the time the heater is on to the time the heater is off is about 50/50 This way you aren't cooking the frogs when the heater is on and freezing them when it is off. A rheostat dimmer paired with your larger CHE on a simple thermostat will allow you to fine tune the heating needs of your tank.

LED lighting is amazing, a lot more light for visual appeal and helps plants grow. I had a 'Plant" fluorescent tube and switched to an Aquatic plant LED system, all my plants shot up like mad. It has a built in timer for day light and 'moon' light, the frogs just sleep until everything is off.

Frog suppliers, Joshsfrogs, LLLReptile, Michael Novy of Rain Forest Junkies, Reputable members of this forum.

I see a correlation between horror stories of sick or DOA frogs coming from suppliers in Florida. Not saying all FL based suppliers are bad.

[Danish]

Thanks a lot guys. My temp and humidity problems seem solved so far. I'm using a CHE and have some exo terra bulbs for the plants. My nighttime temp hovers around 67 and daytime around 78. I haven't seen a solid range of humidity suggested so I just keep it around 70 with an automatic fogger. I got the baby frogs today from inland sea reptiles in FL. Michael was great and even gave me another frog just because he shipped a day late. The frog are just a bit bigger than my thumb nail! Petsmart doesn't have crickets small enough so I dumped a lot of dead fruit flies into a transparent glass bowl. They haven't eaten yet though. One of the frogs is pink, which is weird. At first I thought it was a leutino but now I dont know. Where's a good place to get more fruit flies or really small crickets? It's funny how If you shine even a little bit of light in there they get all shut-eye. I read about people reversing their nighttime schedules, anyone got any experience?

[DigitalPunk]

Danish,

Ask Petsmart when the usually get crickets delivered to the store. They usually get really small 'small' crickets on delivery day so they stay small through the week while they sell them.

Josh's Frogs has them on their website for sale in bulk 500 - 1000. ReadyReptileFeeders has them, but I have not ordered from them yet. It ends up being a tad cheaper to buy them in bulk, but the shipping will kill you.


You frogs will not eat any pre killed food. They need the movement to trigger their feeding instincts. They will eat fruit flies, but you will need to have living ones for them to eat.

Dust your flies or crickets with supplements to help your frogs be healthy. 3 times a week with Calcium with D3 and one time a week with a multivitamin.

[Danish]

I put some moving fruit flies in the terrarium but they got lost quickly, so I'm not sure if they're still in there or got eaten or whatever. Should I also spot feed fruit flies in a small transparent Bowl? Or only crickets?

[flybyferns]

Thanks a lot guys. My temp and humidity problems seem solved so far. I'm using a CHE and have some exo terra bulbs for the plants. My nighttime temp hovers around 67 and daytime around 78. I haven't seen a solid range of humidity suggested so I just keep it around 70 with an automatic fogger. I got the baby frogs today from inland sea reptiles in FL. Michael was great and even gave me another frog just because he shipped a day late. The frog are just a bit bigger than my thumb nail! Petsmart doesn't have crickets small enough so I dumped a lot of dead fruit flies into a transparent glass bowl. They haven't eaten yet though. One of the frogs is pink, which is weird. At first I thought it was a leutino but now I dont know. Where's a good place to get more fruit flies or really small crickets? It's funny how If you shine even a little bit of light in there they get all shut-eye. I read about people reversing their nighttime schedules, anyone got any experience?

Hi ,
Sounds like you have done quite a bit of work
However, they must eat.
Don't forget to dust the cricks with calcium and vitamin supplements.
See the FF care sheet for red eyed tree frogs.

If they do not eat soon they will not do well.
It is highly unlikely they will eat FF.

Buy pin-head and small cricks
Have them shipped expedited, as in.......... overnighted.
Or,find a herp shop ......and take a drive

I would not recommend changing their "nighttime schedule" .
They are 'instinctively' nocturnal. It would be stressful on them.
They know when in day and night - we can't change this.

[Danish]

Hi ,
Sounds like you have done quite a bit of work
However, they must eat.
Don't forget to dust the cricks with calcium and vitamin supplements.
See the FF care sheet for red eyed tree frogs.

If they do not eat soon they will not do well.
It is highly unlikely they will eat FF.

Buy pin-head and small cricks
Have them shipped expedited, as in.......... overnighted.
Or,find a herp shop ......and take a drive

I would not recommend changing their "nighttime schedule" .
They are 'instinctively' nocturnal. It would be stressful on them.
They know when in day and night - we can't change this.

This is news to me. I thought baby red eyes eat fruit flies?

[deranged chipmunk]

Danish, how far are you from Philly? I can hook you up with a couple cultures if you need them.

[Danish]

Danish, how far are you from Philly? I can hook you up with a couple cultures if you need them.

An hour

[deranged chipmunk]

If you're ever around this area, I can make some up for you to get you started. It's still a little cold to ship them, even close, since I don't have any heat packs.

[Danish]

If you're ever around this area, I can make some up for you to get you started. It's still a little cold to ship them, even close, since I don't have any heat packs.

Appreciate it. How many flies do babys usually eat anyways?

[deranged chipmunk]

No clue. I don't keep retf's