Toad keepers-how deep is your substrate?

[kueluck]

As some of you know my Fowlers toad Rufus passed away this week of unknown causes. For the past 3 years I've always kept up to 5 inch of substrate for them to burrow in. Last year I had 2 females burrow for 7 months with no ill effects but I'm wondering if I really need to have it this deep, if maybe I had kept the levels lower so they couldn't burrow that deep Rufus may still be around. Just looking to see what others are doing. I was going to dig up the other 4 but I'm concerned this would put to much stress on them.

[Xubby]

Not sure I have enough experience yet with their husbandry for this to matter, but I keep my tank around four inches deep, and try to keep it moist enough it can't collapse. I've always wondered how deep she'd go if left to her own devices, because she always ends up touching the bottom of the tank. Any more shallow than that and I'm not really sure how feasible burrowing is.

[Tongue Flicker]

I used to keep my cane toad in a 5 inch substrate. Usually a substrate that is 3-4 times their sitting height (top of head to the ground) is efficient for a home setting. Of course, deeper is always better

[kueluck]

I've read on one of the "expert" sites that toads do not necessarily need to burrow, but if you supply hides that's fine also. I've been using hides & 5 inch of eco earth since I've started keeping toads 3 years ago and was wondering if maybe, just maybe I don't need that much substrate so they wouldn't go into hibernation and stay active like the WTFs & AGTF do. So I was looking to see if maybe other toad keepers used this method of housing. It's very sad to look at an "empty" tank. I know in a few weeks they will be active again, it's just the long wait that sucks.

[Mentat]

I've read on one of the "expert" sites that toads do not necessarily need to burrow, but if you supply hides that's fine also...

Hi Gail! I've read the same information at Frank's site and he's kept toads in public zoos and has long lived specimens. Don't think any of the American ground toads are obligate borrowers. So, would keep any of them in an enclosure with a couple hide spots like tunneled or slanted cork bark and clay flower pots on a shallow substrate layer.

There is a risk involved when any of our frogs or toads follows it's instinct and tries to hibernate or aestivate in captivity. My advice is that unless it's part of pre-breeding conditioning; that activity should be discouraged. Think you are in the right track and should try a shallower substrate method and see how that goes. Good luck !

[kueluck]

That's the "expert" site I was talking about. So I just might dig up everyone this weekend and revamp the toad hotel. Thanks Carlos.

[Psychotic]

I use anywhere from 3-5 inches. I currently have 5 inches of eco earth. My toads are burrowed for the winter. Have been since November.

As to giving them less substrate. I have only given them a inch or 2 before and they still tried to burrow it in. They would hunker down and close their eyes tight, as if they were completely burrowed. They have never been really fond of the hides I've given them. The only one they seem to actually ever use is a plastic basket that I cut a hole into and placed upside down.
I have also given them just paper towel. They shredded it trying to burrow and ended up all hunkered down in a corner. I feel too sorry for them and always give them deep substrate again.

Last winter my toad Jabba died. Sometimes animals die in brumation. There is risk, even when conditions seem perfect.
This winter has been pretty cold. But every time it warms up a little after a cold spell the toads come up and shed. I feed them and then they burrow again. They have done this twice so far. I have dug them up a couple of times to check on them. Probably not the best thing to do. But so far everyone seems to be doing well.
Last year I didn't dig anyone up or any time before that. But after Jabba died; like you, I was worried.

I'd only give them a couple of inches of substrate. Then they can somewhat burrow and you will still be able to find them easily. Also your toads might actually use their hides, unlike mine. The only reason that I give mine so much to burrow in, is because I am actually cooling them. I want them to have a little protection against the cold.

[kueluck]

Yes mine do use the hides when they are up, and the temps don't vary that much for me during the winter since I keep a heat lamp on, so not sure why they want to hibernate. Crazy toads.

Thanks guys for the input, keep it coming.

[bluesclues]

I'veimportant thing is they dont need or want a he as t lamp... for t he same reason - they would normally have cooler we eather, overcast skies and rsin + snow to keep yhem moist. - not condtantly, but occasionally, like they're drinking water to not dry out.

had a toas t, then squeeze it out, so its damp (moi as t, not its like replicating the natural snow-melt and rain that she would be experiencing if she were outside hibernating.

One Ithe hink she is sleeping, enough to get down to her and actually wet hrr down, so she can soak the wster into her skin ( since thats how th err y "drink" water, is through their skin...

I dont want her to dry out and die from dessication - and I figure Iet)

Thsts how I keep her, and she does grest.

But I always pour dechlorinated water on top of a few spots where I ad with meinches deep of peat moss to burrow in.

I eet the pe for 4- years and she hibernates every winter... I added another toad to her tank last yesris because we had a wild toad in our ysrd for yesrs ( we fed her trests in a bowl by the big tree) ... but then one year I found her near a different tree, all hacked up from a weedwacker - it was gross and sad....

So these I rescued to keep them safe,.

One toad always hibernates for real, for several monyhs...

I give her about 6 - 7 Ishes younger -

Both wild caught american toads... the only reason I kept them ( besides that I think they're sweet and cute : ) IGail, sorry to hear about your tosd -
I just posted to you in another thread, where your toad tank photo was, before i saw this topic...

Iv

[bluesclues]

What is wrong with my tablet ??!?? : (
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