Deans Determination a love story (lol)

[Randy]

Well yesterday i woke up to dean my male pacman croaking like crazy. Now lately hes been croaking a lot that's nothing new but yesterday it was different , he was doing it a lot.I house Sam and dean in a 50 gallon tank .Sam is a 3 year old adult female and Dean is almost a year old male , its hard to tell because i got him 8 months ago at petsmart. I had a 6 inch high Plexiglas divider in the tank which he cant go under or around.Lately Sam and Dean have been sleeping right next to each other with the Plexiglas divider between them.To my surprise Dean was sitting behind SAM but she could see him he was sort of off to her left croaking away to her.I found that to be pretty sweet ( although i was a bit worried she would of eaten him lol but shes very non aggressive ,Dean is the more active one) .He had to have made a good jump onto the top of the Plexiglas and got his feet to the top then climbed over to be with her.I watched him there for an hour then when she didn't respond to his mating calls and he didn't climb up onto her i put him back on the other side and raised the Plexiglas divider to 8 inches tall.I will not completely block it off as i use a reptifogger to retain humidity in both sides.I have my doubts that all pacmans eat each other like cannibals just because they are there .My frogs are always well fed, fat and content .I have seen enough forums and videos to know that a starved frog is a dangerous frog and a full frog is not so much .Many amateurs starve their frogs just because they want to watch them eat .but i would rather be safe than sorry and i do keep them separated but I do plan to give them supervised time together in a mating tank i am building to simulate the rainy season.I do not plan to raise baby frogs but i think that reproduction is a natural cycle that a frog deserves to do .

[Hypnotic]

I can understand your reasoning, but I personally find it wrong to let frogs breed and dispose of hundreds of future frogs simply to give them the "joy" of breeding. All pacmans are cannibalistic, because one frog doesn't eat one once, does not mean it won't eat the other one in the future. Your reasoning of a well fed frog versus a hungry frog is however correct, but keep in mind that you can never tell how hungry a frog is. My frogs are fed mice monthly, this fills them up for a week most of the time. I always offer food on the next feeding day even if a week hassn't passed and some will still eat 1-2 nightcrawlers. So if this would happend the day before you are supposed to feed, there is a chance that your frog might allready be hungry and will eat the other frog.
All pacmans will eat other pacmans because they are there when they are hungry, movement = food.

[GrifTheGreat]

If you plan to breed them then you had better plan on raising those tadpoles into froglets. It is irresponcible and against everything we stand for to breed these frogs and then dispose of the offspring. That is just plain wrong. If you aren't going to listen to us then why post telling us what your plan is??? All that is goin to do is anger members here. Breeding is for raising the young to further the species not just to waste an entire spawn for no aparent reason.

This is why breeding is not just for anyone who has a pair of these frogs.

[Randy]

Ok . Never said i was not going to listen to you for 1.but here is how it works . Do you feed mice to your frogs?I happen to raise mice and i do feed the young to my frogs and toads but you don't hear me telling you better not do that .I also have bred Lepoard frogs to feed to my pacmans . My AFCs eat their tadpole eggs its a natural thing .My point is this you simply cannot raise all the frog lets and you MUST have a license to sell them to a petshop, legal inspections by the health department which i doubt most of those selling them online have done , if you can even find one to take them all .I do not breed for sale because most people that go to a petshop buy them find out they are not very interesting and they neglect them and they die a horrible neglected death.If they bred id take the eggs and place them into my AFC tank and allow my AFCs to eat them .Feeding your pets home raised foods is much more safe and healthy than buying it at risk at any store .You cannot release them into the wild not in the USA that is illegal .You can feed the tadpoles egg yolks which Egg yolks are indeed full of cholesterol. Like most cholesterol-rich foods, they are jam-packed full of important nutrients, especially the fat-soluble vitamins and essential fatty acids. This would them an extremely hardy source of food for your AFCs.I have raised crayfish and fed the tiny young to my AFCs and pacmans and leopard frogs they are so tiny they cannot harm the frog .I also happen to live in a farming community do you know that your beef was a pet cows calf at one time or your pork was someones pet pigs piglet?This is called the nature of things its a common order in the food chain .I feed my feeder mice cheese for calcium, pedialyte for electrolytes,and greens for vitamins . Their mothers milk also contains a good source of calcium making the pinkies very good for your frogs and toads.Even crickets had moms as well as mealworms and dubias and people keep hissing roaches as pets too. If I allow them to do a natural thing such as mate that is my choice not yours .If you wish to send me criticism on my posts please have the decency to do it in a private message that we might discuss it .What you seem to be against is anything that hasn't come from your mouth . I have 30 years experience raising reptiles and amphibians and have had my stuff on the cover of magazines .I ask your options as i know that a second experienced input is a good thing and to participate in the discussion to show you that i am open to suggestions. of other experienced hobbyists.There is even a post on your forums that sometimes you must make the difficult choice of allowing some cannibalism when you raise ornate frog lets its under the care and breeding section with no negativity on his post.I suggest we discuss in private messages form here on out as we seem to agree to disagree on some things and i do not wish to upset any member or guest who browses the forums.

[Mentat]

... i do keep them separated but I do plan to give them supervised time together in a mating tank i am building to simulate the rainy season.I do not plan to raise baby frogs but i think that reproduction is a natural cycle that a frog deserves to do .

Hi Randy! FF is a frog lovers forum . Because of that, we avoid discussing topics like raising frogs for human or animal consumption, even if it happens in this world .

I believe there is a responsibility involved with our decisions when we obtain pets, when we breed them, and when we can't take care of them, among other things. You are absolutely right... what you do with your animals, is your choice. Still; at FF we culture a huge love of frogs ! This can lead to a conflict with farming concepts and to a pointless flame war; no matter who is right.

Trust me when I tell you, no argument will change the way we think. Frogs go first in this forum and our love for them is what bonds us together. Sorry your thread got an unexpected reaction and hope we all take a step back and enjoy ourselves in here .

[GrifTheGreat]

Ok . Never said i was not going to listen to you for 1.but here is how it works . Do you feed mice to your frogs?I happen to raise mice and i do feed the young to my frogs and toads but you don't hear me telling you better not do that .I also have bred Lepoard frogs to feed to my pacmans . My AFCs eat their tadpole eggs its a natural thing .My point is this you simply cannot raise all the frog lets and you MUST have a license to sell them to a petshop, legal inspections by the health department which i doubt most of those selling them online have done , if you can even find one to take them all .I do not breed for sale because most people that go to a petshop buy them find out they are not very interesting and they neglect them and they die a horrible neglected death.If they bred id take the eggs and place them into my AFC tank and allow my AFCs to eat them .Feeding your pets home raised foods is much more safe and healthy than buying it at risk at any store .You cannot release them into the wild not in the USA that is illegal .You can feed the tadpoles egg yolks which Egg yolks are indeed full of cholesterol. Like most cholesterol-rich foods, they are jam-packed full of important nutrients, especially the fat-soluble vitamins and essential fatty acids. This would them an extremely hardy source of food for your AFCs.I have raised crayfish and fed the tiny young to my AFCs and pacmans and leopard frogs they are so tiny they cannot harm the frog .I also happen to live in a farming community do you know that your beef was a pet cows calf at one time or your pork was someones pet pigs piglet?This is called the nature of things its a common order in the food chain .I feed my feeder mice cheese for calcium, pedialyte for electrolytes,and greens for vitamins . Their mothers milk also contains a good source of calcium making the pinkies very good for your frogs and toads.Even crickets had moms as well as mealworms and dubias and people keep hissing roaches as pets too. If I allow them to do a natural thing such as mate that is my choice not yours .If you wish to send me criticism on my posts please have the decency to do it in a private message that we might discuss it .What you seem to be against is anything that hasn't come from your mouth . I have 30 years experience raising reptiles and amphibians and have had my stuff on the cover of magazines .I ask your options as i know that a second experienced input is a good thing and to participate in the discussion to show you that i am open to suggestions. of other experienced hobbyists.There is even a post on your forums that sometimes you must make the difficult choice of allowing some cannibalism when you raise ornate frog lets its under the care and breeding section with no negativity on his post.I suggest we discuss in private messages form here on out as we seem to agree to disagree on some things and i do not wish to upset any member or guest who browses the forums.

The problem is that you post and don't explain your intent. You send me visitor messages and never explain your intent. It almost seems that you are trying to provoke a negative responce from someone like me. Do what you want, but never have Pacman frogs been farmed as food so Don't get upset when you recieve a resonce such as you have gotten here. I also wasn't the first to respond negatively to your post which as I said never explained your intent.

People don't breed these frogs as a food source plain and simple. If thats what you want to do by all means go ahead, but don't get upset when you recieve a responce like you already have. Epsecially in an area thats about the care and well being of such amphibians.

I will not reply to this thread again.

[Randy]

TY Carlos hey man i don't breed frogs for food .Occasionally they do mate and a overflow of frogs occurs like with the leopard frogs .in that case yeah i fed them to my pacmans .I don't intend to breed these guys to make food for my ACFs .Ill rephrase it ok? I thought it might be a good idea to let them breed at least once in their lives .But with the negative input i am getting maybe ill just let them be like they are . They can see each other through the plexiglass , Dean can croak and now that i have raised the divider they will not be able to get together hence no babies will be made.i do wish i could save all my pets young even the mice.I am a member of the ASPCA .All of my cats were discarded orphans who now have a wonderful home and shots and are fed everyday .When i bought my ACFS and eels they were in an extremely bad tank( the owner was getting rid of them as they were in poor health) .I bought them as is no warrentys and nursed them back to health at great cost to myself ( i had to buy a 90 gal tank ,undergravel filter, lighting system ,screen lid ,canister filter ,200 lbs gravel, stand, heater ).I just spent 200 dollars on the vet for my elder cat .So please don't think i am unconcerned i love my pets . I even worm my frogs as i get them to ensure they are healthy ( by a professional vet).I'm sorry for the misunderstanding in communication to griff and hypno .I value their input as experts.I will not deliberately plan to breed them but i was just originally saying that dean did get to her through sheer determination and thought it rather sweet.