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Thread: First build- few questions (drainage)

  1. #1
    buggerdtp
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    Default First build- few questions (drainage)

    Hi everyone! I'm completely new to terrarium building but it looks like a lot of fun so I took the plunge and bought a 20h Tetra tank from Petco today. Ultimately, I'd like to house two Dendrobates tinctorius (Cobalts if possible) in a living terrarium.

    I'm going to start work on a false bottom for the tank, probably going with the egg crate option. I'd like to have one or two holes to drain the terrarium when water levels get too high (I was planning on putting the holes approx. 1 inch above the bottom of the tank ie. there would be up to 1 inch of standing water in the bottom). Therefore, the holes would be on the back of the tank. Is the 20h Tetra safe to drill on the back or is it tempered glass? Is this too much standing water, or not enough?

    I do not plan to have any standing water or waterfalls as a feature in my terrarium, besides a water dish for the frogs. But I still assume I need a way to drain excess water out of the bottom of the tank from misting.

    I'll have plenty more questions when I really get going on this, but the drainage would be a good place to start.

    Cheers and thanks!
    Dave

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  3. #2

    Default First build- few questions (drainage)

    Quote Originally Posted by buggerdtp View Post
    Hi everyone! I'm completely new to terrarium building but it looks like a lot of fun so I took the plunge and bought a 20h Tetra tank from Petco today. Ultimately, I'd like to house two Dendrobates tinctorius (Cobalts if possible) in a living terrarium.

    I'm going to start work on a false bottom for the tank, probably going with the egg crate option. I'd like to have one or two holes to drain the terrarium when water levels get too high (I was planning on putting the holes approx. 1 inch above the bottom of the tank ie. there would be up to 1 inch of standing water in the bottom). Therefore, the holes would be on the back of the tank. Is the 20h Tetra safe to drill on the back or is it tempered glass? Is this too much standing water, or not enough?

    I do not plan to have any standing water or waterfalls as a feature in my terrarium, besides a water dish for the frogs. But I still assume I need a way to drain excess water out of the bottom of the tank from misting.

    I'll have plenty more questions when I really get going on this, but the drainage would be a good place to start.

    Cheers and thanks!
    Dave
    It's safe to drill the back. Normally, only the larger tanks have tempered glass and only on the bottom.

    The amount of standing water is up to you. You can drain it directly out if you so choose and have no standing water. Many people do that.

    If you don't want to drill the tank, a simple airline running to the bottom of the tank will suffice to siphon water out of the bottom as well.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  4. #3
    buggerdtp
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Thanks for the info! If I completely drain the tank and have no standing water in the bottom, won't it be hard to keep humidity levels up? I know I could use a humidifier, and I'll be misting twice a day or so.

    Thanks again for the info! Can't wait to start this. I'm going to pick up supplies for the bottom today.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Buggerdtp,

    Your substrate can help with the humidity as well. PDF don't require ventilation (the air circulation from opening the enclosure to feed or mist the terrarium will be enough) so your top should be all glass. This will greatly help to keep the humidity up. Also if you include some moss in your substrate. I like to use the ABG mix for the middle layer of my substrate and then I top that with about 1 inch of Sphagnum Moss. The moss holds in quite a bit of water and will help keep the humidity up. It will also help keep the frogs from having ABG mix stuck to them. I then cover the moss in a layer of Leaf liter. I prefer Magnolia leaves, but that is just personal preference.

    If you do use Sphagnum moss, when you are putting it in the tank soak it in dechlorinated water and the ring it out so it is damp but not dripping wet.

    The misting + the Damp moss will keep the humidity quite high. The false bottom is simply to collect execs water and keep it from swamping out the substrate. If you would like the water to help with humidity you could look at adding some Leca or Hydraballs (expanded clay) to the false bottom area. The Leca will absorb some water and then when you drain the False bottom will begin to dry out and release humidity.

    Hope this helps some.

  6. #5

    Default First build- few questions (drainage)

    Actually, leca will not absorb water. It's baked clay. Think orange flower pot
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  7. #6
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Oh I was under the impression the Leca would hold it a bit of water and then release it out as it dried again to help with humidity... interesting. Thanks Bill! I will have to look into that some more and see where I got my false information from.

  8. #7
    buggerdtp
    Guest

    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Thank you both for helping clear this up for me! I am now torn between Leca and a FB. As I don't have a pump or water feature, I wonder if Leca would be easier/cheaper/better for my terrarium. I would still probably need a hole drilled for drainage, or some way to drain the excess water, correct?

    For those who use a FB, how do you "hide" it so it isn't visible if it takes up the whole bottom of your tank?

    Heading out to go look at/pick up some supplies. Thanks again! I really appreciate the help!

  9. #8
    buggerdtp
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    So, I built my false bottom with the Egg Crate method. I have a small amount of room along the edges of the crate in the tank and I'd like to fill it in with some sort of substrate to hide the white crate.

    I will probably end up using ABG mix for the next layer of substrate on top of the crate. Should I fill in the edges with ABG mix, with pea gravel (and then ABG mix on top), or with Sphagnum moss (and ABG mix on top)?

    My next step (after figuring out what substrate to use on the sides of the crate to "hide it"), is to get a hole drilled in the bottom and hooking up a hose to complete the drainage process.

    Thanks for all the help!

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  10. #9
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    bug,

    Put some weed block down. Cut it so it is 1 to 1.5 inches long on all side. Then put your substrate in it and push it to the edges of the tank. This will close off the gaps and keep the ABG mix from falling down into your false bottom space.

    I would then cover the ABG mix with a roughly 1 inch thick layer of Sphagnum Long Fiber moss. then top that off with some Leaf litter. The Sphagnum moss will help keep the humidity up as well as keep the AGB mix from getting all over your froggies. The leaf litter will keep your frogs from accidentally swallowing some moss and becoming impacted. The leaf litter is also great for DARTs, give them numerous hiding options if they get spooked.

    Keep posting pics! We love Vivarium builds!!

    I have a build thread going for my Red Eyed Tree Frogs. Near the bottom of page 2 are some pics of the Moss on top of ABG mix and then another picture of Leaf litter over the top of that. http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...elcomed-2.html

  11. #10
    buggerdtp
    Guest

    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Paul,

    Thanks for the info, and the link! I have some fiberglass screen mesh over the crate (hard to see from the pic), but I like the idea of the weed block better, so I'll remove the fiberglass mesh and put the weed block down. With the crate fully covered in weed block, I'll add some ABG mix and push it around the sides of the crate to hide the sides.

    I won't actually be putting down the ABG until I figure out what I want to do with my background and get that sorted out first. Since I only have a 12" wide tank, I'm thinking of keeping the background as flat as possible, with a few climbing areas and some plants. I need to do a lot more research into this, though.

  12. #11
    buggerdtp
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Has anyone had problems with using weed blocker on their egg crate false bottom? I'm worried it will hold water, not let enough through, and become nasty. Is this a concern or does it work well for vivariums?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    You shouldn't have issues with Drainage. The water that will reach that level of your substrate should be minimal, but yet water will drain through weed block slower than it would through a screen.

  14. #13

    Default First build- few questions (drainage)

    Depends on the brand weed blocker. Some people have had issues with drainage with certain kinds of weed blockers. I never had, but it has been noted. My newest builds are getting a double layer of fiberglass screening. Works like a charm as well.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  15. #14

    Default First build- few questions (drainage)

    Oh, punching substrate down the sides is going to creat a muddy mess in that area and wick moisture up into the substrate. You may want to go with something like black aquarium gravel or something to that effect. I use black contact paper on the outside of my tanks to cover what I don't want people seeing. It's cheap, and easily removed.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  16. #15
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Quote Originally Posted by deranged chipmunk View Post
    Oh, punching substrate down the sides is going to creat a muddy mess in that area and wick moisture up into the substrate. You may want to go with something like black aquarium gravel or something to that effect. I use black contact paper on the outside of my tanks to cover what I don't want people seeing. It's cheap, and easily removed.

    Yes to clarify I was suggesting using the Screen or weed block to keep the substrate from falling into that space but pushing it to the edges of the tank to ensure the weed block is stretched to the edges and has something on top of it.

  17. #16

    Default First build- few questions (drainage)

    That's what I mean. Pushing it down the sides will actually cause a wicking effect, pulling moisture up above the false bottom and soaking the substrate on top of the fb. Soil , whether it be clay based, or imitation, like coco fiber, is a great wicking agent. It just pulls water everywhere.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  18. #17
    buggerdtp
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    Default Re: First build- few questions (drainage)

    Right-o, I'll probably be adding some pea gravel along the edges to fill in the cracks and hide the FB, then cover the entire area with another layer of fiberglass screen mesh, then add the ABG and Sphagnum moss and leaf litter. This should be my substrate layer (I'll add springtails as well). I won't be doing the substrate until I figure out my background. I think I want the back and both sides covered. Just have to figure out the best way to do it.

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