R/O water for substrate and soaking bowl

[MikeIsGreen]

Hey everybody! I love this forum already...I bought a pac man yesterday according to the sales associate and everything (up until now) stated that reverse osmosis water would be just fine for my new little buddy. I just read that it isn't and in fact and eventually end up hurting him. My gut sank when I read that because is used r/o to ready the substrate and fill his bowl/mist the tank. How bad did I screw up?!? I'm really worried right now. If anyone could help am out that would be awesome!! Thank you

[DesertHeat]

Swap out the substrate with new substrate hydrated with dechlorinated tap water, fill the water bowl with dechlorinated tap water. R/O is probably fine for misting as long as you don't directly spray your frog.

I doubt one or two days has done any lasting harm to your frog. Just get everything swapped out as soon as possible

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Hi mike,
first of all welcome to the forum and being a new frog parent.

Desertheat is completely correct.

There is a great care sheet here for packman frogs. (click me)

It has a lot of good info.

I am curious of what kind of setup you have and how old is your new frog.
and how big it is.

if it can sit on a quarter and you can still see the quarter the little one might be
a tad scared in anything larger than a small critter carrier.

So pictures of the frog and the current setup would be helpful.
BTW we love pictures!!

[MikeIsGreen]

Desertheat and Louis, thank you for the replies and info! I was afraid that I would have to swap everything out. I don't mind doing it at all. The only problem is that I have to drive 80 miles round trip to get everything and that means he will have to hang out in it until later today. Would that be a problem? Also, should I get everything out while his lights are out or during lights on? He was stressed out for the first few hours then he settled down and dug him a little "nook" to hangout in and I'm hate to dig him out lol. I can't say for sure that he hasn't eaten but I haven't seen him eat and no signs of bathroom so will this switch set him back even further on him getting use to his new surroundings? He is in a 10 gal aquarium with 3" of coco and maybe a 1/2" of sphagnum moss on top. Bought a cheesy little ground cover from Walmart yesterday because I felt like he may have felt too open in there. He is definitely bigger than a quarter, and probably bigger than a half dollar as well. The guy at petsmart said he was under a year old, but couldn't say how old for sure. Any eagle eyes out there that can tell how old he is? I can get better pics if need be. Thanks guys! I feel at home

[DesertHeat]

Ditch the moss, it is a dangerous impaction hazard.

For today you can use non colored paper towels moistened with dechlorinated tap water as a substrate. Best to get him out of the old stuff before the r/o water can leech any more minerals out of him.

What is his SVL (snout to vent length)? That will help guesstimate his age

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

[MikeIsGreen]

Right on..thanks for the quick reply! I don't have any declorination tablets here, I have to go to petsmart. Our walmart doesn't have a very good selection at all. The best measurement I could get was about 1 1/2" maybe a bit more but couldn't get exact reading. Also, should I take the crickets out in the morning or just let them roam? They are not bothering him.

[DesertHeat]

For dechlorinating water you can use the same liquid used for freshwater fish tanks, one a lot of members use is seachem prime. You can also use reptisafe which is marketed for reptiles and amphibians.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

[MikeIsGreen]

Oh ok cool...maybe Walmart will have that since they do sell some fish supplies. I'll check there before I drive out of town..plus the roads are super nasty!!

[MikeIsGreen]

Just called Walmart and they do have a big bottle of liquid declorination, so if that will work..I'll just go pick it up here shortly and get him fixed up right away..thanks again guys! I'll try to get a better pic when I'm transferring him/her..? Lol thanks

[MikeIsGreen]

Bought this at Walmart few minutes ago and have water clearing up now the. I'm changing everything and leaving out the sphagnum. I also just noticed the red around his eyes is turning brown...is this something to concerned about? I assume yes but he now looks more like the other green pacman I've seen

[kueluck]

Don't panic RO is ok, I use it on my frogs/toads when I'm warming water for tea and have left over to add to their cold water. Been doing this for over 2 years now. I also found this on Josh's Frog site.
Filtration for pet Reptiles and Amphibians | Josh's Frogs
(R/O) water purification systems remove impurities from your tap water, rendering it safe to you with your pet reptiles and amphibians. Minerals, harmful chemicals, chlorine, and much more is removed from your water after it is forced through a membrane. Reverse Osmosis systems are easy to install and use. Josh's Frogs strongly suggests using water purified by a reverse osmosis system for misting and drinking water.

[MikeIsGreen]

Kueluck thank you very much for that!! Seriously I was really panicing..I was wrong about the color loss which is strange because it must've just been the angle/light I was in. I got him/her all setup now and he didn't even panic like when I brought him home. He kinda wandered around checking things out, pooped, and made himself a nook in the nice, fresh substrate. Here is a way better pic of the lil guy. I'm off to do more research and re re read the link provided earlier. Take it easy everyone!

[GrifTheGreat]

R/O is not safe for anything but misting. I don't care what Josh from Josh's frogs said. The only difference between distilled water and R/O water is the process in which it is collected neither contain minerals or salts essential for proper hydration and body function. Burrowing frogs need water that contains minerals and salts or else they eventually become sick and die. R/O water and distilled water steal minerals and electrolytes from the frog which is what eventually kills it. Treated Tap water seems to work best and should be used for their water dish and substrate saturation. Distilled and R/O for misting or foggers.

There are many threads here with questions of which water to use and many who come with sick frogs who have been using distilled water or R/O water for everything. That is why their frog was sick.

[DesertHeat]

Listen to Griff, he's the Yoda of Pacman frogs

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

[MikeIsGreen]

Griff, thank you very much. I really glad I changed out his substrate. The treated tap water makes complete sense. I use my r/o on my house plants and then I add nutrients to that water. I am all about this little guy and his health/well being. I finally got to see him feed and it was amazing! Two crickets wandered in front of him (with my help) and man he nailed both at the same time! Then ended up eating 3 more in front of me. He is so cool. Oh another dumb question, will flukers high calcium cricket diet hurt him if he gets it on him? I put a cricket in before his lights came on and some flukers sprinkled out of the tube and on him. Not heavily though. I assume he will be fine...? Thanks guys!!

[MikeIsGreen]

Ok something "new" has occurred. He has completely buried himself. I literally couldn't find him. I went to the spot in the tank where he was last and kinda moved the substrate and finally saw a spot of green. I turned off the heat lamp but the temp was only at 81 or so. Normal???

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Don't worry this is completely normal.
Especially after a large meal or low humidity or the frog wanted to cool off.

81F is almost spot on for the warm side of the tank.

You need to have the warm side 82 to 85F during the day and 72 to 75F during the night.

[MikeIsGreen]

Thanks Louis! Not long after I turned his light out he was up above ground munching his crickets! I having a hard time getting a solid answer on how many crickets he should be eating a day. The pet shop said put 6 or 7 in there (easier said than done) lol I put 5 in there and if it's ok I will put 2-3 more in there before I go to bed. He has had 2 maybe 3 so far since 7pm central

[kueluck]

Not questioning your input on this, but how can a reputable deal have this info on there site and be incorrect? Or does it differ from darts to pac? I don't have either type of frog, and I only use fresh rain water that I collect on the frog/toads that I do keep? I'm just curious on the info that is out there. The internet is SO confusing at times.

R/O is not safe for anything but misting. I don't care what Josh from Josh's frogs said. The only difference between distilled water and R/O water is the process in which it is collected neither contain minerals or salts essential for proper hydration and body function. Burrowing frogs need water that contains minerals and salts or else they eventually become sick and die. R/O water and distilled water steal minerals and electrolytes from the frog which is what eventually kills it. Treated Tap water seems to work best and should be used for their water dish and substrate saturation. Distilled and R/O for misting or foggers.

There are many threads here with questions of which water to use and many who come with sick frogs who have been using distilled water or R/O water for everything. That is why their frog was sick.

[GrifTheGreat]

Not questioning your input on this, but how can a reputable deal have this info on there site and be incorrect? Or does it differ from darts to pac? I don't have either type of frog, and I only use fresh rain water that I collect on the frog/toads that I do keep? I'm just curious on the info that is out there. The internet is SO confusing at times.

He doesn't focus strictly on Pacman Frogs. They spend 24 hours a day 7 days a week burrowed in the substrate. If it is saturated with pure water then it steals their vitamins and minerals. It is no different than using that water for their soaking dish which is not to be done. So if its not ok to use that kind of water for saoking then why in turn would it be safe to use for the substrate too? The frog will lose valuable salts, electrolytes, and minerals, become ill and die. There are far more experienced breeders that can back that up. Philippe de Vosjoli would be one of those breeders. In the world of Horned Frogs he is who most look to for how to house their Pacman's. There is a lot of conflicting info out there and so many disagree with their care, but some things have to be learned the hard way like not dechlorinating bottled water and assuming that it does not contain chlorine.

John has a good thread somewhere here on the forum that compares the various water type available. These are not tree frogs that pend their time up off the ground. The stayed burrowed for days and the constant exposure to that kind of water is fatal. This happenes over a long period of time, but eventually the frog succumbs to the imbalances in its system. Many become bloated once they get sick.

I'm not trying to start a conflict, but I can assure you that it is not ok for these frogs. Distilled and R/O are both pure water with nothing in it unless minerals and salts are added. It will literally leach the life from them.

Here is John's post. http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...hing-else.html