Heating (up) a small exo terra for my new pacman

[Manwell]

I have a young (6/7 months) albino and he's in a 30 x 30 x 30 exo terra, I originally put my heat mat at the back (wall) behind the exo terra backing but it wasn't generating much heat so I've moved it to the bottom (I stuck it to the underside) but it's still only ready 19/20 degrees c but it does feel warmed at least the substrate does.

My heat mat's only 7w could this be why it's not getting hot enough?

Thank you

[Manwell]

this is my little man, he's called Manwell

[Bedore]

Just in case others read this and see 30x30x30 and think holy ****, I believe he is referring to a 30cm enclosure which is 12x12x12" for us yanks. Anyhow let's begin.

You will need to get your temperatures under control. Day time temps need to be 82-85 and night time temps 76-78. Humidity should be 70-80% as well (you didn't mention current humidity). You need to move the heat pad to the side of the tank. These frogs like to burrow to cool down and regulate temperatures. If they are looking to cool down and burrow into the substrate, they will end up getting too hot with the heat pad on the bottom. I put mine on the left side of my Exo-Terra enclosure. The heatpad alone is not enough for my enclosure (and does not appear to be enough for yours) so I added a ceramic heat emitter. It's mounted above the enclosure and I allowed about 1" of space or so between the top of the enclosure and fixture. I also covered most of the top with aluminum foil as this helps to hold in heat and humidity. I cut a square out around where the heat emitter sits. I also have the heat emitter controlled by a thermostat and if you end up adding one I'd recommend you hook it into a thermostat as well.

Your frog looks young. Maybe it's just the photo but it looks younger than 7 months, but hard to tell. If your frog is still a young/smaller frog I would recommend you put your frog in a smaller critter keeper. Add some substrate and a small water bowl and put it inside the exo-terra enclosure so you can still regulate temps/humidity. Once your frog has grown large enough (they grow quick) you can release your frog into the full enclosure. If it's just the photo that is making it look small, then disregard.


Hope this helps you out.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! First thing is to read this: Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding. Second is to get either a larger heat mat (as large as you can fit on side) or a small dome with dimmer and either a red bulb or ceramic infrared heat emitter. Pacman frogs kept in low temps for a period of time will develop permanent health issues. For a baby your target temperature should be 28C (82F). Agree with Bedore in that frog looks like a baby. Think if 7 month's old could be stunted. Good luck !

[Hypnotic]

The way I heated all my 30x30x30 enclosures was to put one heatmat on the side and one on the back, the back one being on 24/7 for nighttime temperatures and the side one being on 12 hours a day during my light cycle, it always gave me the temperatures of 27+ to 27.8 during the day and 24-25 at night. Don't attach the heatmat to the bottom, as Bedore stated, they are burrowers and dig to cooldown.
Also make sure the temperature probe is attached a few cm's above the substrate, that is where the frog lives and attaching it to the top might give you different temperatures.

[Manwell]

He's now in a small Monkfield terrarium with a fitted slot underneath for the heat mat, the heat mat itself only covers half the enclosure my probe and thermometer probe are just above the substrate and it's slowly climbed up to 31.6 - at last!!

[Manwell]

I hear what you're saying and in an ideal world this would be possible, by the time Manwell's an adult I will have adapted his exo terra to accommodate a side and/or back fitted heat mat or mats, but in the meantime I am very concerned my little man is younger than originally anticipated and his immediate and long term health is at risk if I don't meet his needs RIGHT NOW? I am very concerned about using light overhead heat as he's albino so this is a short term solution for the here and now, the good news is that he's now very active and eating well, I don't know much about frogs but I've kept hundreds of animal species and my experience tells me he's "happy"


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[Bedore]

I hear what you're saying and in an ideal world this would be possible, by the time Manwell's an adult I will have adapted his exo terra to accommodate a side and/or back fitted heat mat or mats, but in the meantime I am very concerned my little man is younger than originally anticipated and his immediate and long term health is at risk if I don't meet his needs RIGHT NOW? I am very concerned about using light overhead heat as he's albino so this is a short term solution for the here and now, the good news is that he's now very active and eating well, I don't know much about frogs but I've kept hundreds of animal species and my experience tells me he's "happy"


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Overhead heat will not harm or affect your albino in any way. Overhead lighting is not good for an albino's eyes but a ceramic heat emitter is NOT a light emitting device, it's a ceramic bulb that produces heat and no light. Many of us that live in cold areas successfully use a ceramic heat emitter. If you google ceramic heat emitter you will see what I am talking about.

Keep in mind that you came here looking for advice on how to heat a pacman frog enclosure. What you do with that advice is up to you, but this forum has tons of information and lots of good members who have a lot of experience with pacman frogs, their housing requirements, their care, and proper husbandry. Ultimately we all want the best for our frogs so I suggest you do some more reading and make your own conclusions. I still stand by the fact that a heat mat under the tank is not a good idea especially for a burrowing frog. If you are truly concerned about his long term well being then I urge you to do more reading on this forum and consider the advice already given to you.

[DesertHeat]

DO NOT make assumptions you may one day be very surprised who you are talking to

Lol. Really? Who you are and what you do matters not at all. You're an inexperienced Pacman keeper who came here for advice, received that advice, and summarily ignored it. Then you proceeded to blast the people who were only trying to help you.

Even if it turns out you're the PM or even the Queen Mum, you're still ignoring good advice. That to me is the epitome of rude.



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[Manwell]

the PM is male and the Queen Mum is dead, so nope, neither of those. Yes I did indeed come here for "help" and no I don't have 30 frogs so my bad! Thanks Bedore for the light/heat clarification that IS really helpful, I appreciate the fact you understood my concern about the light issue. Manwell is happy in his "temporary" set up (which granted isn't perfect but it is meeting his basic needs) while I endeavour to sort out his exo terra which will be his permanent home, but I'm not going to leave him in it with insufficient heat just because someone says so, moderator or not, you are not god and you don't own MY animals.

Honestly I'm not "ignoring" good advice FAR from it, I've never read so much in my blooming life lol I'm just getting frustrated because things aren't working or going to "plan" so excuse my frustration I didn't mean to take it out on anyone I am enormously concerned for the welfare of my little man (and all the animals in my care).

Which is why I'm sticking with this and not just having a strop and walking away, he's too important to me.

[foofighter]

I am in the UK as well and use exoterra tanks I ve got a few pacs all different species. find that with the 30x30x30 I need a mat that covers the entire side of the tank then I ovehat with some foil insulation from b&q that. you also have to cover 3/4 of the meshing on the top with something I use polycarbonate twin wall also from b&q. this kees the temps where they need to be. hope that helps.

[Manwell]

I am in the UK as well and use exoterra tanks I ve got a few pacs all different species. find that with the 30x30x30 I need a mat that covers the entire side of the tank then I ovehat with some foil insulation from b&q that. you also have to cover 3/4 of the meshing on the top with something I use polycarbonate twin wall also from b&q. this kees the temps where they need to be. hope that helps.

how do you actually keep your heat mat stuck to the side? Mine keeps coming off, it's an inch or so too big (but the other one's too small!!) I've tried celotape and masking tape both of them peel off during the night I'm guessing as it peels off?

[foofighter]

The heat may I be got is about 10 mm smaller it's a Komodo 14 w I think you get about 5 mm a ll the way round. The best tape I ve found is electrical insulation tape. If the mats to big I wouldn't know how to stick it I guess it would keep coming off. I found when mine were that small they didn't like that size tank much. I used the nano cube for them. Got two at the moment with them in temps all fine. It's experimenting really ceramic/infra red heaters are what I want to use really with heat mats for back up.

[GrifTheGreat]

the PM is male and the Queen Mum is dead, so nope, neither of those. Yes I did indeed come here for "help" and no I don't have 30 frogs so my bad! Thanks Bedore for the light/heat clarification that IS really helpful, I appreciate the fact you understood my concern about the light issue. Manwell is happy in his "temporary" set up (which granted isn't perfect but it is meeting his basic needs) while I endeavour to sort out his exo terra which will be his permanent home, but I'm not going to leave him in it with insufficient heat just because someone says so, moderator or not, you are not god and you don't own MY animals.

Honestly I'm not "ignoring" good advice FAR from it, I've never read so much in my blooming life lol I'm just getting frustrated because things aren't working or going to "plan" so excuse my frustration I didn't mean to take it out on anyone I am enormously concerned for the welfare of my little man (and all the animals in my care).

Which is why I'm sticking with this and not just having a strop and walking away, he's too important to me.

You're right I'm not God, but the majority of information on Pacman Frogs you will find through this section of the forum comes from me and other experienced keepers. I'm not telling you to do anything with your frog. I'm suggesting. You can do as you please.

Now I'm done with this argument which it was not intended to be so I will not comment further if it becomes more elevated or continues.

Now about lights for Albinos. The only bulbs that emit light that are safe for them are infrared night time bulbs and Moonlight blue night time bulbs. You can use infrared bulbs 24/7 and not interupt their day and night cycle because they are unable to see infrared waves like we cannot. Infrared bulbs produce very good heat output and can assist greatly with raising the temp. They also will dry out the ambient air humidity, but any heat source will do that as the temp within the enclosure rises.

During cold months it is difficult to maintain a steady climate. Sometimes you sacrifice humidity to maintain proper heat, but as long as you create humidity spikes throughout the day by misting they will be fine. Having a UTH under the substrate will dry the lower layer of soil and can dehydrate your frog if he burrows over the UTH so burning isn't the only concern. They absorb moisture through their skin especially through the thin patch on the lower abdomen so check the lower substrate often for drying. If the frog begins to dehydrate it may not understand why and not move from above the heat pad. Exo Terra tanks are very well designed and can help greatly in maintaining climate, but humidity is always an issue so if you are able to aquire a climate control unit like Zoo Med's Hygrotherm you can attach a fogger to it and the unit will fog the tank when humidity drops below ideal levels. It can even be used for your heat source in combination with the fogger.

Artificial rain systems are not ideal for Pacman Frogs because they can make the substrate over saturated and the water within the muddy soil will go stagnant and caise bacterial and fungal growth so that is always something to watch out for. The soil should be moist or heavily damp, but not muddy. You are off to a good start and there is a lot more you need to learn. You are in the right place if you wish to successfully care for your ffog.

[Manwell]

The only bulbs that emit light that are safe for them are infrared night time bulbs and Moonlight blue night time bulbs. You can use infrared bulbs 24/7 and not interupt their day and night cycle because they are unable to see infrared waves like we cannot. Infrared bulbs produce very good heat output and can assist greatly with raising the temp. They also will dry out the ambient air humidity, but any heat source will do that as the temp within the enclosure rises.

During cold months it is difficult to maintain a steady climate. Sometimes you sacrifice humidity to maintain proper heat, but as long as you create humidity spikes throughout the day by misting they will be fine. Having a UTH under the substrate will dry the lower layer of soil and can dehydrate your frog if he burrows over the UTH so burning isn't the only concern. They absorb moisture through their skin especially through the thin patch on the lower abdomen so check the lower substrate often for drying. If the frog begins to dehydrate it may not understand why and not move from above the heat pad. Exo Terra tanks are very well designed and can help greatly in maintaining climate, but humidity is always an issue so if you are able to aquire a climate control unit like Zoo Med's Hygrotherm you can attach a fogger to it and the unit will fog the tank when humidity drops below ideal levels. It can even be used for your heat source in combination with the fogger.

Artificial rain systems are not ideal for Pacman Frogs because they can make the substrate over saturated and the water within the muddy soil will go stagnant and caise bacterial and fungal growth so that is always something to watch out for. The soil should be moist or heavily damp, but not muddy. You are off to a good start and there is a lot more you need to learn. You are in the right place if you wish to successfully care for your ffog.

BRILLIANT thank you - I'm on a "bulb" mission tomorrow, much appreciated

[Manwell]

HygroTherm™ Humidity & Temperature Controller

one of these?

[GrifTheGreat]

HygroTherm™ Humidity & Temperature Controller

one of these?

Yes. Those work really well. You have to program it for the setting you want.

[danfrog]

how do you actually keep your heat mat stuck to the side? Mine keeps coming off, it's an inch or so too big (but the other one's too small!!) I've tried celotape and masking tape both of them peel off during the night I'm guessing as it peels off?

Duck tape for the win. I have removed my heat pad many many times. I always used duck tape to reattach it to an enclosure.

[Manwell]

Off to get duck tape and heat lamps.......


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[Manwell]

Right I think we're sorted; while Manwell was in his temporary accommodation I fixed the bigger heat mat to the back if my eco terra (with duck tape) then I fitted a 40w red bulb inside the tank the same side as the heat mat.

Only problem was the heat mat was plugged into the thermostat and the light was on constant, when the tank reached temperature it shut the heat mat off but with the light on temps were still rising. So I plugged the light into the thermostat and now it pops on and off when optimal temps are reached, the heat mat is on constant.

So day time temps are maintaining at 28/30 and humidity is 80/85, at night I will just leave the light off?

Will post some pictures in a minute see what you think?