RETF Custom Terrarium background - Advice and tips needed/welcomed

[DigitalPunk]

Hey all,

The frog bug has hit me full swing. I never thought getting my wife RETF for Christmas this year would have such an impact on me and pull me into a new interest and hobby. I recently posted pics of the 18 x 18 x 24 Terrarium we setup for them once we realized the 10 gallon fish tank was less than ideal for our new babies. Well we had an issue with our automatic mister (learning curve on keeping the humidity at the right point) and swamped the Terrarium out. We were able to clean it out and get it roughed back in with the leftover ABG mix we had. We also noticed signs of mold on the wood feature, we boiled it, scrubbed it, and then baked it in the oven for a couple hours. While it was cooling i read around and discovered that the awesome grapevine we bought for the terrarium is completely wrong and will continue to mold and rot in the humid terrarium.

So this sent me onto a shopping spree. Living in a rural area we do all of our shopping online. With a mix of Amazon, Josh's Frogs, LLL Reptile, and Mist King we bought some additional supplies for the terrarium to correct our noob mistakes and attempt to setup an more stable home for our RETF. With the holidays we have a longer wait on things than I would like.... couple that with my incessant reading about RETF and Terrariums/Vivariums I have decided to buy a 2nd 18 x 18 x 24 terrarium and do a custom background. I have also started to look into ways to keep the substrate from getting water logged so easily in the future. So with that long winded opening done I thought I would share my idea and hope I get some feed back, advise, and ideas.


Idea -

I bought some cork bark from LLL Reptile and plan on spray foaming, using Great stuff, it into the back ground. I also have 2 Pothos that I will be planing in the top corners of the back ground in pots. I will use straws in the bottom of the pots to allow ager to drain out and not remain stagnant in the pot. I bought a Nworegelia 'Annick' to plant in the back ground as well. I'll use silicon on the spray foam to stick coco fiber to it to make it look more natural. I also bought some egg crate light defuser, and PCV couplings to make a false bottom. I also bought a pump to place in the false bottom. I haven't decided if I will use the pump to pump water out of the tank periodically to keep it clean and also do a water feature or just use it to keep the water level down. I will build a channel using the same egg crate into the back ground to allow the pump to be removed if it has any problems or needs to be replaced. I also bought 2 pieces of Manzanita for the new wood features.

I have never done anything like this before and have watched as many videos as I could find (which sadly isn't a lot). I have never made a water feature before so any tips on how to make a waterfall. My thought is to do a waterfall down the back that empties into a little pool in the base (the pool would empty into the void I would use egg crate to make walls for the bottom of the pool to keep the frogs from getting int he void) I would also fill the pool with smooth rocks to keep the frogs from drowning in it. Just need to come up with a way to guide the water down the wall to the pool without swamping the substrate.

Anyways. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[irishanaconda]

Hey all,

The frog bug has hit me full swing. I never thought getting my wife RETF for Christmas this year would have such an impact on me and pull me into a new interest and hobby. I recently posted pics of the 18 x 18 x 24 Terrarium we setup for them once we realized the 10 gallon fish tank was less than ideal for our new babies. Well we had an issue with our automatic mister (learning curve on keeping the humidity at the right point) and swamped the Terrarium out. We were able to clean it out and get it roughed back in with the leftover ABG mix we had. We also noticed signs of mold on the wood feature, we boiled it, scrubbed it, and then baked it in the oven for a couple hours. While it was cooling i read around and discovered that the awesome grapevine we bought for the terrarium is completely wrong and will continue to mold and rot in the humid terrarium.

So this sent me onto a shopping spree. Living in a rural area we do all of our shopping online. With a mix of Amazon, Josh's Frogs, LLL Reptile, and Mist King we bought some additional supplies for the terrarium to correct our noob mistakes and attempt to setup an more stable home for our RETF. With the holidays we have a longer wait on things than I would like.... couple that with my incessant reading about RETF and Terrariums/Vivariums I have decided to buy a 2nd 18 x 18 x 24 terrarium and do a custom background. I have also started to look into ways to keep the substrate from getting water logged so easily in the future. So with that long winded opening done I thought I would share my idea and hope I get some feed back, advise, and ideas.


Idea -

I bought some cork bark from LLL Reptile and plan on spray foaming, using Great stuff, it into the back ground. I also have 2 Pothos that I will be planing in the top corners of the back ground in pots. I will use straws in the bottom of the pots to allow ager to drain out and not remain stagnant in the pot. I bought a Nworegelia 'Annick' to plant in the back ground as well. I'll use silicon on the spray foam to stick coco fiber to it to make it look more natural. I also bought some egg crate light defuser, and PCV couplings to make a false bottom. I also bought a pump to place in the false bottom. I haven't decided if I will use the pump to pump water out of the tank periodically to keep it clean and also do a water feature or just use it to keep the water level down. I will build a channel using the same egg crate into the back ground to allow the pump to be removed if it has any problems or needs to be replaced. I also bought 2 pieces of Manzanita for the new wood features.

I have never done anything like this before and have watched as many videos as I could find (which sadly isn't a lot). I have never made a water feature before so any tips on how to make a waterfall. My thought is to do a waterfall down the back that empties into a little pool in the base (the pool would empty into the void I would use egg crate to make walls for the bottom of the pool to keep the frogs from getting int he void) I would also fill the pool with smooth rocks to keep the frogs from drowning in it. Just need to come up with a way to guide the water down the wall to the pool without swamping the substrate.

Anyways. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I dont mean to stir people away from this site, but www.dendroboard.com has a few more write ups on doing a false bottom. There are quite a few ways to do it as well.

[Mentat]

I would use Titebond III (waterproof) instead of silicone glue to adhere the coco fiber to background. Read this thread for info: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...aludarium.html. Also, if having draining issues you can go two ways. One is to provide access to bottom area for draining using a tube reaching into bottom inserted into a foam block to prevent it from clogging. Then you can insert into tube a flexible small hose and drain excess water out.

Another option is to have a glass shop drill a hole into the enclosure side (at least one in. away from edges) and install a plastic bulkhead. Lot's of info and videos on net and YouTube, specially in reef aquarium set-ups. Then you can just open valve and drain any excess water out. Can see one here and here. Good luck !

[flybyferns]

Hello

Think outside the box. I threw the towel in. Literally !

There are so, so many opinions. Likely, too many. It is difficult to sort through all of it.

In a relatively short period of time (meaning 5-6 years), I believe I have tried every conceivable idea to best house my tree frogs. I keep Agalychnis callidryas and Agalychnis moreletii. In comparison to dart frogs, I believe they are challenging. I believe neither to be a ‘beginner’ species. Presently, each of my tree frog species is housed separately in exo-terra 36”H enclosures.

My personal conclusion is, unlike the enclosures constructed for PDFs, these 2 species do not need ANY substrate at all ! IMO those set-ups typically use in the hobby such as a traditional layer base or false bottom are not needed......... or may I, not necessary.

I believe it’s all about keeping them as clean as possible since, sadly, the most common reason for their demise in unsanitary enclosures. The walls and floor of their enclosures need to be cleaned (wiped down) weekly.

I use mist king supplies in all my enclosures---- otherwise I would have arthritis Mist King ,was by far, the best investment I have made.

[DigitalPunk]

Thanks irishanaconda I will add that site to me reading list!

[DigitalPunk]

Lynn,

Thanks! I agree they are not for beginners for sure. I started work on some features of the new terrarium tonight. The rest of the supplies need to hurry up and get here!!

[DigitalPunk]

Most of the parts have arrived and the setup is in the very very early stages. I have a free pics to sharif the progress so far.

I decided (out of sheer anticipation for the build to come and sick of waiting) to try my hand at making a custom vine.

I wanted to use rope, but we didn't have any and my terrarium budget is in the Red lol. soooo. I searched the house and found some things I thought would work.
First i took a piece of coax cable (because it can be bent and somewhat hold its shape) and an old computer power cable. I twisted them together into roughly the shape I was going for. Then I wrapped is all in twine to give it some texture and bulk it up a bit more.



Then thanks to the tips from Carlos I mixed up some Titebone III <pic upside down..... odd> and covered the makeshift vine in it


I pressed Coco fiber into the slurry mix as I went along. I did the top side and pressed fiber into it all then laid it in a bed of coco fiber and did the under side. I let that all dry for 24 hours then turned it so I could do the sides, pressed coco fiber all over it and burried it in coco fiber to dry... I am going to let all this dry for 5 - 7 days then clean it off and fill in any spots. Here is hoping the Titebond III won't crack when I bend it some to get the look I want in the terrarium.



After looking at the vine today it is WAY to long so I will have to cut it down some, but the loop I put in it turned out real nice. Want to make sure that part makes the cut


Got restless after that and decided it was time to work on the false bottom.

I cut notches in the supports to make sure water didn't get trapped in them


Staged them in the terrarium and cute the Egg Crate to fit.




I then cut out a space to allow access to the water pump and built a channel for it up the back. Hoping that down the road it can be removed from this channel to be replaced if needed. Will have to test this out before it is all spray foamed into place. Also cut out a spot and walled the hole in for a small soaking pool for the Red Eyed Tree Frogs. I will fill it with smith rocks so only a shallow pool is available for the RETF to get to. I




The Cork flats and pump will both be here Sat and then I will have all the pieces. I am holding off on any Great Stuff work until I can test fit the pump. Hoping to have it foamed in Sat night so it can be cured sunday or monday and I can start sculpting it and Titebonding it.

Still trying to decide how to hide the foam on the sides of the terrarium. Thinking of just getting some black paper to tape to the outside of the terrarium to add privacy and conceal the foam backing.... Not sure though, want it to look good and not just thrown together.. have to think on it more.

Updates to follow as the project progresses.

[DigitalPunk]

Not sure why all the pictures are sideways or upside down.... hmmm

[tinkgirl77]

Looking good so far! Keep us posted please.

[DigitalPunk]

Will do! I have a tendency to try and rush to the finish on projects. I am practicing a remarkable level of self restraint with this project. Will be posting more pics shortly for the work that was done last night and this morning.

[DigitalPunk]

Last night we finally decided we (much to our sadness but probably the best thing for our frogs) decided to black out the tank. We almost did back paper on the outside, but ultimately decided it wouldn't look as nice as it could. So off to Lowes I went to get some back silicone..... Lowes sucks and didn't have any so off I went to Home Depot. With 2 tubes in hand I returned to the house only to realize half way through the first tube I was about 2 tubes short. So my wife (who has been very involved in this whole process) jumps in the car and races to Home Depot to get 2 more tubes.

It looks awful now, but I am hoping it looks better once we are finished.

When the light hits it you can see through it. I put another thin coat on some of the worse spots, but the entire inside will either have spray foam or Titebond III slurry covering it so this shouldn't ben an issue.

We assembled the channel and zip locked it in place. We also put the pump in and attached the hose. My Wife was nice enough to use her smaller sized hands to wrestle the zip ties at the bottom. You can also see th T we put in to allow us to drain the water off too... It was only after it was all in place and spray foamed in that I thought.... if the valve is after the T there is no way for us to force the water up higher and out of the tank... will have to test it to see if my new concerns hold water.

This morning the Cork Bark came it. It was a little smaller than I had envisioned but I think It will ultimately be nice that it is smaller. We spent a good 20 mins trying them in different positions... Honestly the best part so far we found a setup that we both liked and broke out the GreatStuff. We are using the red can for this tank.

Now we wait. Going to give it 2 hours or so then turn the tank and start working on placing the sticks in. Here are the ones we selected. We bought them from Josh's Frogs. One nice thing about buying them from Josh is they had a picture of each stick up so you could pick the one you wanted by site. They sticks were laid next to a ruler so you could see how long it was, how curved it was and how thick it was. Very nice setup on their site!

More to come later today.

[DigitalPunk]

Small Update. The back wall has cured to the touch but is still mushy. Turned the tank on its side and positioned the first stick into place and spray foamed it in. We used a very technical and complicated method to hold it in place. If you need instructions they can be provided for a small fee lol

and still no clue why all the pictures are showing up sideways... anyone have any tips?

This Picture is like a modern art advertisement for Josh's Frogs lol

[DigitalPunk]

Last work done for the day on the Terrarium. Tomorrow starts the long process of covering the whole thing in Titebond III and Cocoanut fiber. I have opted not to mix moss with it for the health and safety of our froggies.

We got the 2nd stick in place. Not where we originally had planned for it to go but I think I like the look it is giving. We mounted it to one side so it over hangs the cage like a tree branch. As you can see we again used our superior skills to hold it in place while the foam hardened.

We put some extra foam hear and there on the sides to give the terrarium a bit more rugged texture. We let that sit and harden for an hour or 2.. not sure exactly how long. I surfed the web some and watched the rest of Bourne Ultimatum.

Next we started to foam in a path for the water to make it from the wall to the hole. It was about now that I wished we just made the hole up against the wall. The foam kept collapsing on itself. We also ran out of foam halfway through this and had to run out to HD to buy another can. We also got some small stiff bristle brushes to try and use with the Titebond III tomorrow.

Here is a pic of the Terrarium upright and one of the hole leading back into the false bottom. For a depth of view reference there is about 6 - 8 inches between the back stick and the back of the terrarium.

Tomorrow we will begin caving on the foam and the Titebond III. Later tonight I will lay it on its side and put some more around that lone stick it is looking pretty weak.

It is all starting to come together. The hard part is not rushing it now.

[DigitalPunk]

Pretty Major issue with the build this evening. I went in to look at it one last time before bed tonight (That was 3 hours ago) and saw that the spray foam application on the bottom was a half baked bad idea at best. I realized that the foam "collapsing on itself" as I mentioned earlier was actually the foam oozing through the egg crate and filling in the false bottom space. So I made a command decision (wife was in bed asleep) to remove the false bottom and start cleaning up the mess I made.

Using rubber gloves I pulled all the spray foam off the top of the egg crate and surveyed the crime scene. I decided my only option was to cut the egg crate along the back wall and remove the section most heavily effected. After the egg crate was removed I spent the next hour and a half scrapping the glass on the bottom of the Terrarium to remove foam and foam residue. It was less than awesome. But I got it mostly done tonight. Here is what it looked like midway through the scrapping. Oh and a picture of the pile of stuff I pulled out with the discarded egg crate.

I measured the piece I removed and cut a replacement piece from what I had left over. I tried to test fit it and realized the best way to get it back in without risking any further damage was to cut it in half so I could more easily re install it.

I needed to wait for more of the residue to dry so I went and checked on my "Custom Vine" to see how it was doing. The glue is completely dry which was at least some good news for tonight. I measured the vine and then measured the terrarium. I had a vine long enough for 2 or 3 of my terrariums so I cut a section of it out and then spent the next 30 mins holding it in various spots. I came real close to not putting it in at all, but decided that Roy and June could use one more thing up in the top of the Terrarium to monkey around on.. At the very least it would give June a higher perch to poop from and try to hit the water bowl.. I am not sure she has pooped anywhere but in the water bowl so far lol. (just a note: when she does poop I remove the water immediately, clean the bowl, and replace it with fresh water).

So I set about spray foaming the vine in. I won't have pictures of it in the tank till the morning. I am just killing time now waiting for the one side I secured with foam to cure enough so I can turn the tank and lock the other side in. Then I am off to bed.

Nearly didn't share my failure in this thread, but Hey I figure it is all part of the Terrarium customization experience. More updates tomorrow.

[flybyferns]

Paul,
It looks wonderful! Enjoy your build. I bet there will more
Thanks for a great thread!

May I :
2 little tips
live vine idea--- if you purchase a dark color poly rope ( say 1/2" or less in diameter)...pull the inner cotton out of it.
Boil it. Using a crochet hook...you can pull the moss and wet sphagnum moss through the weave.
It's work beautifully ! Once they fill in the vine is beautiful and strong! You might even get the sphagnum to start to grow.
There are some photos of these in my albums.

instructions ( sort of )
http://www.frogforum.net/dart-frogs-...moss-vine.html

recent photo of one growing:
http://www.frogforum.net/beginner-di...tml#post209924

Your wood: I would sand those sharp edges and points. Red eyes are not the sharpest tool in the shed
There will be an uncontrolled leap from a startle - you don't want any injuries Ouch

Best, Lynn

[deranged chipmunk]

Looks good so far. Failures are part of learning and I am glad you showed them. Just remember, you need to be patient with spray foam and allow it to cure for at least 24 hours before moving the tank. If it is a heavy applications, 72 hours. You wouldn't believe how long it can take to cure all the way through when it is very thick. This prevents it from shrinking as you go along.

As far as the outside if the tank covering the foam and such, I use black contact "shelf paper" I get from Home Depot to cover my tanks, so you cannot see the foam from the outside.

The vine you made was pretty inventive, except, unless you removed the copper core from the coax cable, with the humidity inside the tank, the copper is going to slowly corrode and poison the tank, no matter what you do. Water vapor has a tendency to get in places you wouldn't believe.

Otherwise, keep up the great work, it's looking great!

[DigitalPunk]

Lynn,

That is a really good idea! I will have to play around with that and see if I can't make it work!

Thank you!

[DigitalPunk]

Bill,

I had thought of that bit about the coper and used a piece of Coax with Aluminum in the middle as well as power cords with Aluminum wiring.

I started Painting on the glue today. I have pictures I will post after this. I tested the glue on the Silicone and I don't think it is going to stick. The backup plan incase I am right is to use a thin layer of spray foam on the sides to give me a surface to apply the Titebond III

[DigitalPunk]

The recovery form last nights mistakes is complete.

I did what little trimming I wanted to do and vacuumed the inside of the terrarium out. I cut the wholes for the 3 pots I will put on the back wall and got them inserted. I am using a mesh pot normally used for a hydroponics setup. the two pots in the top corner of the tank will be for Pothos plants and the one lower in the middle is for a Bromeliad. There will also be a Snake Plant planted in the substrate.

Next I laid the tank down on its back and began painting on the Titebond III + Cocoanut fiber. Once I covered a section I would press more coco fiber into it. Rinse and repeat until the whole thing was covered. Plan is to let the back dry for a day or 4 then check it. I also did a test patch on some silicone to see if it would adhere. If it does not than I will be cleaning off that patch and applying spray foam to all the remaining side and back glass of the terrarium.

[deranged chipmunk]

Looks good so far!!!