Hello and Q's about drip/fog/water systems.

[Jumpin Frogs]

Hello all I am new to the forum and have questions about a tank I am going to setup for frogs(Not sure about which ones I like as there are so many to choose from). I really find myself completely fascinated with the Red Eyed Greens or the Poison dart types the most for there color.

I am a complete enthusiast for anything living though and have kept aquariums for 46 years on and off with running a home based fish breeding business a couple times in the distant past so I have a pretty wet thumb already. OK here's what I am planning so far.

46BF tank and matching stand with a set of dividers in the tank to separate the land mass area for live plants and the frogs to most live. This will leave a decent sized portion in front for water where the (hopefully) some tadpoles will be later on. (did I mention that I would like to breed what ever species I end up keeping)?
Top down will look something like this below:
((please excuse the "x's" below in the picture they are place holders for the other symbols so just ignore them))
---------------back---------------------
| p x|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
| u x|xxxxxxx(Land)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
| mp|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|--------------------------------------|
xx-xxxxxxxxxxxx(water area)xxxxxxxxxxx-
xxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx--
xxxxx---------front-----------------
The water area and pump areas will be connected with an underflow through the shorter(4" instead of 5) glass piece.
Above the pump area I will construct a foam rock waterfall for sound and overall effect. Not needed by the frogs but I like waterfalls and their sound.
I would like to hook up a canister filter to keep the water area clear also.
I will put something in the water area like live aquarium plants which I am very successful at keeping already(lilies like the Nymphaea sp.) letting them take over the water surface for froglets to crawl out onto. There will also be some attached rocks with sand siliconed on their surfaces to allow adults and young alike to crawl out of water if they fall in(safety first)

My questions come to this.
1) I need to know more about the plumbing of a drip system that would not flood the dirt/land area to much(I will setup this area with drainage using clay beads I have already purchased) has anyone here setup really nice drip or misting system? One that I want to build would use the already present water from the front of my tank and have that water return to the water area with some type of plumbing using PVC/pump. This is where I'm not to sure as I have not built one of these already. Any ideas or thoughts from failures will be appreciated.

2) What works best for "drip" methods?, a solid piece of plastic with holes drilled all over for true dripping? or just some type of "soaker" hose type setup. The filter will be a HOB from Hagen using some aggregate rock gravel for the filter medium. Will this flow to much water to any system do you think?

3) I have some wood pieces but they are very short and will be integrated into the foam background, this leaves me with the need for one or two long pieces that are 2 foot or more for the frogs to climb around on to get close to the light which will be the links below:
Light = Amazon.com: Exo Terra Compact Top Canopy for PT2613 - 90 cm: Pet Supplies
One bulb = Amazon.com: Exo Terra Repti-Glo 2.0 Compact Fluorescent Full Spectrum Terrarium Lamp, 26-Watt: Pet Supplies
Another bulb = Amazon.com: Exo Terra Night-Glo Moonlight Lamp, 25-Watt: Pet Supplies
I own two 26 watt bulbs for natural 6500k aquarium use already for the main lighting for plants to finish off the fixture.
Might these bulbs get the desired heating for certain frogs that I have mentioned above? or will I still have to add a heat source like this:
Amazon.com: Penn Plax Ceramic Heat Emitter for Your Terrarium or Vivarium, 60-watt: Pet Supplies

4) Will that wattage be enough for this size tank?

I have purchased some of the material like Exo Terra Plantation Soil, 8 Quarts, 3-Pack and the Hydro balls from Zoo Med.

5) I will need to use some type of filter mesh screen for the separation of hydro balls from the Exo Terra PS, what will work best for these to materials to separate them(regular window screen)?

Well that's about it as this is long enough for those who answer to read through(sorry for the length, but I like to be complete)

Thanks ahead for any advice/help!
Doug

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF Doug! Answered some questions below. There is information about builds in the Care Article section and the Vivarium sections. My favorite build there is this one: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...aludarium.html. My best advice would be to select the frog species first and learn about their preferred parameters. Knowing that, you can then fine tune the enclosure to meet those needs. Good luck !

...
1) I need to know more about the plumbing of a drip system that would not flood the dirt/land area to much(I will setup this area with drainage using clay beads I have already purchased) has anyone here setup really nice drip or misting system? One that I want to build would use the already present water from the front of my tank and have that water return to the water area with some type of plumbing using PVC/pump. This is where I'm not to sure as I have not built one of these already. Any ideas or thoughts from failures will be appreciated.
This build has a drip system: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...unk-build.html.

2) What works best for "drip" methods?, a solid piece of plastic with holes drilled all over for true dripping? or just some type of "soaker" hose type setup. The filter will be a HOB from Hagen using some aggregate rock gravel for the filter medium. Will this flow to much water to any system do you think?
Check online or local hydrophonic supply stores. If using the latter pay with cash .

3) I have some wood pieces but they are very short and will be integrated into the foam background, this leaves me with the need for one or two long pieces that are 2 foot or more for the frogs to climb around on to get close to the light which will be the links below:
Light = Amazon.com: Exo Terra Compact Top Canopy for PT2613 - 90 cm: Pet Supplies
One bulb = Amazon.com: Exo Terra Repti-Glo 2.0 Compact Fluorescent Full Spectrum Terrarium Lamp, 26-Watt: Pet Supplies
Another bulb = Amazon.com: Exo Terra Night-Glo Moonlight Lamp, 25-Watt: Pet Supplies
I own two 26 watt bulbs for natural 6500k aquarium use already for the main lighting for plants to finish off the fixture.
Might these bulbs get the desired heating for certain frogs that I have mentioned above? or will I still have to add a heat source like this:
Amazon.com: Penn Plax Ceramic Heat Emitter for Your Terrarium or Vivarium, 60-watt: Pet Supplies
Depending on frog and room temperature you might not need additional heat sources. If you do, can use a ceramic heat emitter with some species or heat tape/mat with others. For example many Darts require high humidity and that means blocking the screen with glass. Putting a heat source like an emitter on glass might not work right at all.

4) Will that wattage be enough for this size tank?
This you will have to determine on a trial basis method. Recommend get bulbs locally and keep receipt. Try for 24 hours and if not enough; trade up for a higher wattage bulb.

5) I will need to use some type of filter mesh screen for the separation of hydro balls from the Exo Terra PS, what will work best for these to materials to separate them(regular window screen)?
Regular plastic window screen from hardware store will work OK. Many of us add a second layer of aquarium polyester media or poly type pad from craft or sewing store on top of it.

[Jumpin Frogs]

Thanks!
Does the poly pad have a distinct name brand that works best?
How well do heat pads work if put against the side glass on one end? There is one here: Amazon.com: Fluker's Ultra Deluxe Premium Heat Mat, Large (17 x 11 inches): Pet Supplies That looks like a good fit size wise for my tanks end pane. Would/does this type of heat work from the outside well?

Thanks again.
Doug

[Jumpin Frogs]

Bumpp

[Mentat]

Thanks!
Does the poly pad have a distinct name brand that works best?
How well do heat pads work if put against the side glass on one end? There is one here: Amazon.com: Fluker's Ultra Deluxe Premium Heat Mat, Large (17 x 11 inches): Pet Supplies That looks like a good fit size wise for my tanks end pane. Would/does this type of heat work from the outside well?

Thanks again.
Doug

You can use any synthetic aquarium micron filter pad that is sold in large enough pieces to cover your needs. Coralife, Dr. Foster and Smith and others makes them. The idea is to have a second layer on top of screen that will prevent the smaller substrate particles to fall through into the false bottom area.

Heat pads used in frog tanks are highly inefficient since heat will escape to the air around them. Members do use them in combination with the light bulbs when a species require a warmer environment. For species requiring high 70s or low 80s you would look at other options like heat tape as well. Recommend first decide the species you plan to keep, they might not need supplemental heating at all .

[Jumpin Frogs]

You can use any synthetic aquarium micron filter pad that is sold in large enough pieces to cover your needs. Coralife, Dr. Foster and Smith and others makes them. The idea is to have a second layer on top of screen that will prevent the smaller substrate particles to fall through into the false bottom area.

Thanks You Carlos! I appreciate the response.

Heat pads used in frog tanks are highly inefficient since heat will escape to the air around them. Members do use them in combination with the light bulbs when a species require a warmer environment. For species requiring high 70s or low 80s you would look at other options like heat tape as well. Recommend first decide the species you plan to keep, they might not need supplemental heating at all .

Thanks! I will probably be keeping one of the Poison Dart frog colors for this tank, I assume since they all come from the same type of landscape in nature that their temperature settings should be pretty similar(within a few degrees). If the heat pads are placed against the side of the glass on one end of the tank does this make it more efficient? I will not buy one if it is not really needed for the above mentioned types. The pad seems like it would need to be replaced every so often since it would fill up with detritus pretty quickly just like in an aquarium. Is this such a good idea since I will not want to disturb the tank like that for several years(I have watched videos of others from professional shops that show them not needing to clean out a tank for very long periods of time).

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

What I have used in the past for large areas to keep substrate from falling into the expanded clay balls and keeping a water permeable layer
is plain old window screen that is non metallic.
You can cut it to fit the area then sew pieces together to form a lip edge around water features ect ect.

It is inexpensive and is available at just about any hardware store pretty cheaply.
just remember not to get the metallic type.
The cloth type holds up pretty good and can withstand heat pretty good if it is too close to a heat element.
The vinyl type not so much.

[Jumpin Frogs]

What I have used in the past for large areas to keep substrate from falling into the expanded clay balls and keeping a water permeable layer
is plain old window screen that is non metallic.
You can cut it to fit the area then sew pieces together to form a lip edge around water features ect ect.

It is inexpensive and is available at just about any hardware store pretty cheaply.
just remember not to get the metallic type.
The cloth type holds up pretty good and can withstand heat pretty good if it is too close to a heat element.
The vinyl type not so much.

Ok I'll try some of that on a test run when I get the chance to see how well it keep out the topsoil.
Thanks!

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

get the fines mesh you can get.

[Mentat]

...The pad seems like it would need to be replaced every so often since it would fill up with detritus pretty quickly just like in an aquarium. Is this such a good idea since I will not want to disturb the tank like that for several years(I have watched videos of others from professional shops that show them not needing to clean out a tank for very long periods of time).

You do not change the pad. It's mission is to prevent soil from reaching the false bottom area; it's not acting as an aquarium filter. Excess water from from soil will seep through, even if it gets soiled.

[Jumpin Frogs]

@Carlos, Yeah I get the action it will be doing. My concern is that it will clog to a point that no water will drain through at all. Then the plants would suffer and die and the whole thing would have to be exhumed. I think it would be smarter to just use a window screen separator and let the water go through more freely. (unless I'm missing something)

Does the drainage stay consistent over years of operation?