Is it possible to breed pacmans without using hormones???

[ICEMAN]

I am looking for a winter project this year so I figured I would take a crack at breeding horned frogs. I finally confirmed I have a male, and would like to get a female to pair him with. My question is would it be worth a shot to try breeding them? I understand that there is a lot of care required for tadpoles and froglets, and I am not out to make money. Is it possible to breed without the use of hormone injections? I know that is how the large scale breeders do it, but I have no desire to breed them that way. Any info is useful, thanks for reading!

[Mentat]

Yes, they've been bred without hormones but require to be conditioned for it, including a pre-breeding period of aestivation. You need to be experienced and control your aestivating frog conditions well or they could perish. Good luck !

[ICEMAN]

Thanks! I am looking to acquire a fairly sizable female for Christmas. I have a pretty good idea about how I am going to go about breeding. Are there any other sources I can look at that would help???

[MatthewM1]

Goodluck in your search for info. All the big breeders figured most of it out by trial and error and aren't really willing to let the information they've learned over the years slip out. But from what I've learned I'm my searches, it's very difficult to get 1.1 to breed. If I remember correctly most do it with atleast 3.1

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

[Mentat]

...But from what I've learned I'm my searches, it's very difficult to get 1.1 to breed. If I remember correctly most do it with at least 3.1

Yes, this appears to be because, conditioned females have to see a choice of competing males, before selecting one .

[ICEMAN]

3.1? Huh... I'm guessing that has to do with male competition or something. Well looks like I need to save up!! Where did you get hat information?

[Hypnotic]

Too bad I don't live near you. I have 4 confirmed males out of 6 frogs, and one is still unsexed. My money is on male.
I have a gift for selecting females that are males.

[mikesfrogs]

For natural breeding it's atleast 3 males to one girl. Mainly because you will be guessing when to breed them. There are lists of signs that us breeders see and know when to breed naturally.

Most of the general public will never see the hormone info

[mfj7777]

How to let the females see the males competing? Do we need to put them in the same place?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mentat]

How to let the females see the males competing? Do we need to put them in the same place?

Yes, they have to be together in a rain chamber. You have to literally simulate their weather cycles as if in the wild, to get them to breed the natural way. A rain chamber simulates the last stage (after aestivation and a heavy feeding cycle) and triggers breeding behavior .

[ICEMAN]

So are there any breeders on this forum that will give me some tips? Maybe post an article on it? (wink wink nudge nudge) I am having a terrible time finding information, and experience would be helpful. I don't understand why breeders wouldn't want to share their ideas and methods! But I digress... Is there ANYONE out there that can get me going in the right direction?

[Mentat]

...I don't understand why breeders wouldn't want to share their ideas and methods! ...

Breeders have spent time researching and learning by trial and error. Their knowledge is intellectual property that keeps their business profitable and that is the reason they do not share it .

[ICEMAN]

I am just a hobbyist, I am not out to make money. Im not trying to "steal business" from anyone. I have a huge passion for reptiles and amphibians, and rather than risk losing them to a potentially avoidable mistake, I would just like to get a little information. I thought that was what the forum was for people! To ask questions and get answers! Haha... Is it safe to say no one is wanting to help me? Or can anyone point me in the direction of someone that can/wants to help?

[GrifTheGreat]

I am just a hobbyist, I am not out to make money. Im not trying to "steal business" from anyone. I have a huge passion for reptiles and amphibians, and rather than risk losing them to a potentially avoidable mistake, I would just like to get a little information. I thought that was what the forum was for people! To ask questions and get answers! Haha... Is it safe to say no one is wanting to help me? Or can anyone point me in the direction of someone that can/wants to help?

Not all information is available to everyone. Top breeders protect their secretes like top chefs protect their recipes. Thats just the way it is. They do not share that information with just anyone.

[Mentat]

I am just a hobbyist, I am not out to make money. Im not trying to "steal business" from anyone. I have a huge passion for reptiles and amphibians, and rather than risk losing them to a potentially avoidable mistake, I would just like to get a little information. I thought that was what the forum was for people! To ask questions and get answers! Haha... Is it safe to say no one is wanting to help me? Or can anyone point me in the direction of someone that can/wants to help?

I'm sorry you see things that way . FF is a friendly place and we moderators go a long way keeping it that way. However we can't force anyone to share intellectual property. The same happens in other forums too, I was very active in the hybrid fish area and breeders do not share their secrets.

My recommendation is to learn about your frog's natural habitat and husbandry from books and internet, learn about and practice aestivation, build a rain chamber and play with it, and then try breeding them yourself. A good book to get you started is Horned Frogs by Philippe de Vosjoli. Good luck !

[MatthewM1]

I am just a hobbyist, I am not out to make money. Im not trying to "steal business" from anyone. I have a huge passion for reptiles and amphibians, and rather than risk losing them to a potentially avoidable mistake, I would just like to get a little information. I thought that was what the forum was for people! To ask questions and get answers! Haha... Is it safe to say no one is wanting to help me? Or can anyone point me in the direction of someone that can/wants to help?

Once hobbyists start producing a certain animal it's retail value starts to drop as hobbyist breeders tend to sell things significantly lower than market value or even give them away when they have a hard time unloading them. One single successful breeding can add another 1,000+ froglets into the trade. If the breeders doing it now leaked that info and even a handfull of hobbyist started producing it could have serious effects on the market value. I've seen many hobbyist get quite upset over this, but that's just how it works. And do we really want these guys to be the next ball python or leopard gecko where we have every 16 year old who's parents will buy them some equipment breeding?


No one is telling you not to, but it's not going to be easy, and no one's going to hold your hand through the process.


Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

[GrifTheGreat]

Since you are just starting with keeping these frogs and I'm saying you are a novice. Don't take that as an insult because it is true. Most of the species cannot even be bred without Hormones in captivity. Other species their CB babies once grown will not even spawn in captivity. Plus the time, care, and cost of rearing the tadpoles is quite difficult. Water must be clean at all times so 100% change is necessary each day. Food costs a lot. They have to be fed everyday and the cost is around $90.00 per day just for food. These frogs can produce anywhere from a few hundred to 3000 eggs. Breeders can also die in the rain chamber from drowning. They also must be bred at night since they are nocturnal and the seasonal changes greatly affect breeding. Especially barametric pressure systems. You have to time everything just right.

Breeding these frogs is not for just anyone who buys a few and decides to breed. You have a lot of planning to do. Also your winter project should be to gather as much information on each species and especially the species you intend to breed. Like Carlos said you need to start with Philippe's books. Breeding season is also over for the year. You don't breed them in winter.

[michael1846]

I have seen people using small kiddy pools outdoors in the summer to make a rain chamber. I'll see if I can find the link.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yirfqxU...%3DyirfqxUJLyk

[ICEMAN]

Thanks for the input! I actually have a couple of books ordered and on their way. I have done some research and turned up a few good Internet sources. I also have spoken with a dart frog breeder in my area, and while the species are different, water care for tads is similar. The more I read, the more I feel that I can actually pull this off. I understand I will not get rich. Heck, I might even lose money, but i think the experience will be beneficial.