Firebelly Toad Sickness or Infestation?

[Techie]

Hi Everyone:

I bought two firebelly toads 6 months ago to give my other two firebellies some friends. I think the new additions may have been sick when I got them. I thought one -- Chubby -- was a little fat because she eats like crazy. She beats all the other frogs to the food. So, I isolated her for awhile and didn't feed. She didn't lose weight, in fact, she looks fatter. What medication should I give her?

The other frog I bought -- Kermie -- has the opposite problem. He has gotten very thin and barely eats. What medication should I give him?

I cannot afford to bring them to a vet. Any suggestions would help.

Thank you,


Leianne

[Flying Dutchman]

Hi Leianne,

Is Kermie able to eat? Maybe he can't eat because the others beat him to it. Maybe you should feed him apart from the others. Chubby is the opposite I understand. I also have 4 fbt and there is also a smaller one. But I make sure he gets enough. He stays small, but he is healthy. Can Chubby swim under water or does she fload when trying to swim? She can have gas in her colon.

I think (but I'm not a vet) that there is not much wrong with your fbt's.
If they have enough room to swim of hide they will be fine.

Tell us more about your tank.

[Techie]

Hi Johan:

Thank you for your response. Yes, Kermie can eat but usually on eats one of whatever I am feeding him and then calls it quits. Chubby hasn't swam in the water lately but when she does. She doesn't float.

I have a 5 gallon tank that has medium pebbles as base material which sits on a thin filter pad. Under the filter pad is a layer of ceramic balls. This is all covered with approx. 1.5 filtered water. At the right back covering 25% of the floor is a flat rock which is above the water. To the left back covering 25% of the floor and reaching in an angle to the right top of the tank is a driftwood log which is covered with plastic leaves. The back wall of the tank is covered with cork board. The right side of the tank in the water is a very small, live lucky bamboo. On the left side of the tank glass suctioned to the to and hanging down to the water is a plastic plant that looks like a vine. This all provides areas that they can hide but most except for Kermie are out in the open most of the time.

Most of the frogs play with each other but in general have left the female alone. The mainly hold her down when it comes feeding time. Other than that she is usually alone out in the open. The other three frogs usually hang together.

[Mentat]

Hello Leianne and welcome to FF! If I understand this right, you had 2 FBTs in a 5G and added 2 more and now things are not going well. Kind of late advice; but you should have quarantined the new arrivals for at least 30 days to ensure they were healthy and would not contaminate the other frogs and your established enclosure. Can read more about quarantine in here: http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html.

Four FBTs in a 5G tank are overcrowded and should be kept in a 10G or preferably a larger tank. In the case of a timid frog like your small thin one, it will be stressed, and that will affect its immunity system inviting pathogens that will first attack it and then all the others. Here is some more information on their care: Frog Forum - Fire-Bellied Toad Care and Breeding - Bombina orientalis and relatives.

If a veterinary is not an option; then recommend you get a 10G for the 3 larger frogs and leave the small one in the 5G to see if it will relax and eat better. If you want to move the decor to bigger tank and then set the 5G as a hospital for the small one that would be fine too. The Quarantine linked article explains how to set hospital tank.

Also, for the little one, can use unflavored Pedialyte or similar baby electrolyte solution as a bath to try and perk it up. To prepare, you mix 90% 80F dechlorinated tap with 10% Pedialyte and prepare a bath no deeper than chins depth. Place frog in it (a small critter keeper or plastic bowl with holed up top works OK) and let it be for 20 minutes daily then return to hospital enclosure and try feeding it. Besides crickets, you can feed Night Crawlers available at Walmart or bait shops. Get the plain ones (not dyed) and can cut worm in small pieces frog can handle from pointy end (worm will heal).

In the case of Chubby; it could be overweight, or suffering from edema. Does frog feels solid as in fleshy or jelly like? If just fat can diet; if edema it could be cause by bacteria or kidney failure. Medicating a frog without knowing the cause and pathogen involved is risky and can make things lots worse.

To get a clear idea of whats going on you could answer the below questions and we will take it from there. Good luck !

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”

The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.


1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)


by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[Hellsrage]

I'm sure someone a lot more knowledgeable than me will chime in. (I see Mentat is browsing )

But from what you just said, I think a 5 gallon tank is a little small for 4 FBT's, you should consider getting a 10 gallon for that many.


Edit: Sooo close, but so far, Mentat the Great beats me to posting. lol

[Mentat]

I'm sure someone a lot more knowledgeable than me will chime in. (I see Mentat is browsing ) But from what you just said, I think a 5 gallon tank is a little small for 4 FBT's, you should consider getting a 10 gallon for that many.
Edit: Sooo close, but so far, Mentat the Great beats me to posting. lol

Thanks Cody ! Had not laughed in a couple days (been under the weather) and your post cracked me up .

[Hellsrage]

Thanks Cody ! Had not laughed in a couple days (been under the weather) and your post cracked me up .

I feel ya, just got done being sick. Laughing always helps, even if you have to laugh internal because your throat is killing you. haha

[Flying Dutchman]

On topic: FBT's are easy going toads. They tollerate each other, in the wild they can live in large groups even in the smallest puddles. But not all the time. They need room to swim, and they need a hidding place. Were is the tank at in your home? Places with lots of traffic are very stressfull.