Tank Confusion

[elliotulysses]

Right now my ACFs are housed in a rather cramped environment. It is not so bad, they can swim, hide, eat, etc, but I want to move them to my tank.

I started by following the steps to a fishless cycle. Right now it seems my ammonia is at zero, but my nitrites are sky high.

I was given advice that perhaps a larger water change and starting it out with Seachem Stability may work in my favor.

At worst, I figure it would be like draining all of the water and starting back up. Even if it has to start cycling the tank again, Stability should work in the frog's favor for two weeks.

Is this a bad idea? I am really wanting to do this option, as they do seem fairly stressed at times in their small tank.

[carsona246]

I honestly think that switching your frogs to the larger tank would be for the best. I'm not familiar with seachem stability, but the only thing that is going to make a transition to your tank easier is keeping an eye on those parameters(ammonia/nitrite/nitrate). If ammonia is at 0 and all you get is nitrite, you are a good portion of the way done with cycling. Just do waterchanges until nitrite is less than 3 ppm's, and slowly acclimate your frogs to the new tank.
After the frogs have been added just do a waterchange whenever nitrite hits 3ppm's.

[elliotulysses]

I honestly think that switching your frogs to the larger tank would be for the best. I'm not familiar with seachem stability, but the only thing that is going to make a transition to your tank easier is keeping an eye on those parameters(ammonia/nitrite/nitrate). If ammonia is at 0 and all you get is nitrite, you are a good portion of the way done with cycling. Just do waterchanges until nitrite is less than 3 ppm's, and slowly acclimate your frogs to the new tank.
After the frogs have been added just do a waterchange whenever nitrite hits 3ppm's.

With a conservative diet and cleaning up daily with turkey basters, how often would you estimate to do a water change? I've heard of people only doing about 20% once a week.

[carsona246]

20% once a week is once the tank has been cycled. I've never kept ACF's, so I honestly don't know how much waste they put out. I personally don't think turkey basters are gonna cut it for a twenty gallon tank. The only real way to know how often you will need to do a waterchange is to test your tank for ammonia/nitrite every day to see how much builds up. I'd aim for less than 1 ppm of ammonia and less than 3 ppm's of nitrite.

[elliotulysses]

20% once a week is once the tank has been cycled. I've never kept ACF's, so I honestly don't know how much waste they put out. I personally don't think turkey basters are gonna cut it for a twenty gallon tank. The only real way to know how often you will need to do a waterchange is to test your tank for ammonia/nitrite every day to see how much builds up. I'd aim for less than 1 ppm of ammonia and less than 3 ppm's of nitrite.

I do have a large siphon for cleaning and water changes. I just use the turkey baster for the little stuff in the smaller tank (currently)
Thanks for the numbers!

[elliotulysses]

The tank isn't cycled, but that's where Stability comes in. I may make a new thread on Seachem Stability because the directions say add fish anytime after a week of the biofilter getting established.

[carsona246]

I don't think stability works, so i wouldn't get your hopes up too much. I've actually tried it a few times with no success, but others swear it works.

[elliotulysses]

I don't think stability works, so i wouldn't get your hopes up too much. I've actually tried it a few times with no success, but others swear it works.

I think I will see how it works after I do a full water change. I want to move the frogs to the bigger tank, as I do think the one they are in no is not an appropriate shape and may do better to hold small fish or ADFs. Because right now I have to do fairly large water changes every day, along with cleanings, so they seem less than pleased.

Also do filters ever "compete" for bacteria? I know overfiltering is less of a problem than underfiltering.

I am still unsure if I want to trust that the frogs are tough and can go through this, but I also am thinking of starting stability a few days/maybe a week before adding the frogs.
Carlos had just recommended putting them both in with the Stability! Maybe it needs low amounts of "fish" behavior to really get the product to work.
I was also cycling my tank previously!
I got to the point that ammonia was going away, but Nitrite was crazy-high.

[carsona246]

I know you can use stability with fish in the tank, don't know about frogs, but I don't think it would harm them. I'd double check with an aquatic frogger though. It will not be tough on the frogs if you do daily waterchanges. It sounds like your current tank cannot handle the bioload and is getting ammonia as well. If that is the case, the bigger tank will be better regardless. Just do daily waterchanges and it shouldn't bother them so long as ammonia is less than 1 ppm.
Filters can compete for bacteria, but you will still have the same amount of bacteria in the tank as a whole. The bacteria will grow on whatever media has the best conditions for them, regardless of whether that is a filter, an ornament, whatever. Your tank will grow bacteria until there is no longer enough ammonia to support anymore. We use filters because they promote the growth of bacteria, and they help grow the bacteria faster(because the filter has more ideal conditions for bacterial growth). So to answer your question, two filters will not harm the beneficial bacteria growth, it will provide more surface area in general for bacteria to grow on. You may have less bb(beneficial bacteria) in each filter, but the amount in the whole tank will be the same as if you had one huge filter with a ton of bio media. I always like having more than one filter in case one fails, the other can always provide backup, but I usually keep fish who don't mind a little current.

[elliotulysses]

I know you can use stability with fish in the tank, don't know about frogs, but I don't think it would harm them. I'd double check with an aquatic frogger though. It will not be tough on the frogs if you do daily waterchanges. It sounds like your current tank cannot handle the bioload and is getting ammonia as well. If that is the case, the bigger tank will be better regardless. Just do daily waterchanges and it shouldn't bother them so long as ammonia is less than 1 ppm.
Filters can compete for bacteria, but you will still have the same amount of bacteria in the tank as a whole. The bacteria will grow on whatever media has the best conditions for them, regardless of whether that is a filter, an ornament, whatever. Your tank will grow bacteria until there is no longer enough ammonia to support anymore. We use filters because they promote the growth of bacteria, and they help grow the bacteria faster(because the filter has more ideal conditions for bacterial growth). So to answer your question, two filters will not harm the beneficial bacteria growth, it will provide more surface area in general for bacteria to grow on. You may have less bb(beneficial bacteria) in each filter, but the amount in the whole tank will be the same as if you had one huge filter with a ton of bio media. I always like having more than one filter in case one fails, the other can always provide backup, but I usually keep fish who don't mind a little current.

I PM'd two people who are experienced with aquatic frogs. If you know anyone else to talk about this issue to, please have them

Also thanks for the sponge filter information! It is much appreciated.