Noob In Need of a Frog!

[Edisons 10K]

Hi! I know, I know, I probably should be posting on the actual frog forum intro thread, but as I'm only on this site for the sheer purposes of wanting to own and learn more about Pacman frogs, I figured I'd jump right to the chase.

First, I should point out that I am not new to the exotic pet field. I've owned lizards and snakes and turtles over my lifetime, and worked at both an aquarium and a zoo for a couple years, but I am entirely new to Pacman frogs. I used to love the one featured on Dead Like Me, but admittedly never really looked into owning one until now. I just assumed with its size and pretty colors that it was some super expensive, super difficult to care for Hollywood frog. Much to my surprise, in digging around for my own frogs to be used on screen in a project I'm currently working on, Pacman frogs are apparently fairly inexpensive and easy to care for! *facepalm* If I'd known that, I would've had one or more as a pet starting back in high school when DLM was actually on air. I've wasted so many years!

Anyway, back to the point, I would now love to own a Pacman frog or two not only as awesome pets, but to use here and there in a web series I'm working on. No, they wouldn't be on screen for very long, and yes, I know they can be cranky so I'd have to be careful with them. I've worked with animals on screen before and I've been an avid animal lover since before I could even speak, so I have no intention of letting these beautiful babies be abused in any way. That being said, I do need frogs that really pop on the camera, so I'm thinking I should go with the Ornates or maybe Albinos, right? I really like the Ornates that have the really bright greens and reds in their coloring.

Annnd, if anyone is still reading this long ramble and explanation, now I need advice! First, where to buy??? If I'm looking for a frog that will keep its coloring for the most part into adulthood, what am I looking for in a baby frog? Who should I trust in purchasing (I see online that Petco and Petsmart sell Pacman frogs, but I'm also seeing that they often mislabel the breeds, plus I have a tendency to distrust big chains. Any feedback on the health of these frogs?)? There's a lot of online breeders I noticed, but with them it seems like a gamble. I say I want an Ornate, but how do I know who I can trust them to send me what I'm looking for? Also, any advice on whether I should get a male or female? Does one tend to be brighter in color than the other (I've already seen that there's a difference in size, which is common with most animals)?

Aside from buying, I also seem to be seeing a mix of advice for proper enclosures from various sources, some of them almost exact opposites of what others are saying. So from the mouths (or fingers, as it were) of you expert frog owners, how should I house my frog so it'll be at its healthiest? Again, I want colors to stay bright if possible, and a bigger frog would be better for filming.

Then there's handling. I'm aware that these guys aren't like the iguanas I used to have who kind of loved being picked up and toted around on my shoulders. I will, however, need them to at least be chill enough for my actors to pick up without getting their fingers chomped on, lol. Are there better ways than others to get these guys to accept being handled, or is it just luck of the draw in personality types when I get my baby or babies?

Any help would be vastly appreciated. I've been working the canine field for the past 14 years now, so I'm afraid my amphibian knowledge is a bit rusty. I'm sure my frog isn't going to sit for a hot dog, lol!

I thank you in advance for any advice you can give, and I hope to hear back from you soon!

[GrifTheGreat]

First read this. Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding

Second if you're looking for an animal that can be frequently handled or even moderately handled then frogs aren't for you. They do not like to be handled and stress from frequent handling can be devastating to their health. Hands must be washed everytime before and after the frog is handled.

Third these species of frog are one of the few that bite as a defence and they will bite if they feel threatened. Also they may mistake yours or your actors hands as food since they tend to try and eat just about anything that will fit in their mouth(fingers included).

Fouth these frogs are nocturnal meaning that they sleep all day and are active at night so this will put a damper on your filming. They also have specific needs that must be met or they will become stressed and not eat.

Frogs are look, but don't touch pets. Frequent handling is literally bad for their health. Pacman frogs do get stressed easily until they get used to the owner's presence and don't normally react well to strangers. They can become accustomed to you and some handling, but mostly for bathing and enclosure cleaning.

I'm not trying to discourage you from owning one, but I am warning you that what you're wanting to do with the frogs is not how they should be cared for.

Contact IvoryReptiles or mikesfrogs here on the forum for purchase.

[Edisons 10K]

I wasn't planning on putting them in the series with any more frequency than they did in Dead Like Me, which wasn't very often, and mostly you'd just see the frog in its enclosure or chilling on the floor for a second or something. There'd only be a few times where I'd need an actor to actually handle the frog. He wouldn't be out for very long; and if for whatever reason his particular scene was running longer than I'd like, that's why I was interested in having more than one frog. I could swap them out as needed to give them a break if shoot was going longer than intended. I do want to make sure that I'm putting as little stress on the animals as possible, but considering the fact that anything in film and TV (especially a big one like Dead Like Me) revolving around the use of animals is so heavily regulated in the care and use of any animal, I also know that it's not impossible to put these frogs on screen. I would just have to be very careful in how long they'd be out of their enclosures for; and if they're having a bad mood day, shoot a different scene that day. To me it seems like working with a snake as a belly dancer (another hobby of mine). You work around the snake's health and mood and its feeding cycle. If conditions aren't exactly right for the snake, you don't use it in your performance that night. I have absolutely no qualms with adjusting my shoot schedule around the frogs, lol.

I've also been reading up and watching videos on things like using non-chlorinated water to wash your hands with before handling the frogs, how to pick them up, etc, etc, which is something that any actor who will need to hold the frog will be trained in before interacting with the little guys. I actually will be doing a lot of night shooting, too, so I can definitely make sure that any of the frogs' scenes are all done later so I don't have to mess up their normal sleep cycles as much as possible.

I am trying to be as responsible with this project as possible, which is why I'm on here in the first place asking for any advice that anyone is willing to give. I don't want anyone to think that I'm just some jerk filmmaker who doesn't care. If I was, I would've just run off to PetSmart and bought a frog and did whatever I wanted with it.

That being said, thank you so much for the detailed information and links. I want to learn as much as possible about these guys before I even think about putting one on the set, because I have no intention of simply using them as props. They'll live with me and be my own personal companions, as well, which is a big deal for me. My pets are basically my kids, so I want to make sure they're well cared for.

Any further advice from anyone on here would be appreciated! Thanks!

[GrifTheGreat]

I wasn't planning on putting them in the series with any more frequency than they did in Dead Like Me, which wasn't very often, and mostly you'd just see the frog in its enclosure or chilling on the floor for a second or something. There'd only be a few times where I'd need an actor to actually handle the frog. He wouldn't be out for very long; and if for whatever reason his particular scene was running longer than I'd like, that's why I was interested in having more than one frog. I could swap them out as needed to give them a break if shoot was going longer than intended. I do want to make sure that I'm putting as little stress on the animals as possible, but considering the fact that anything in film and TV (especially a big one like Dead Like Me) revolving around the use of animals is so heavily regulated in the care and use of any animal, I also know that it's not impossible to put these frogs on screen. I would just have to be very careful in how long they'd be out of their enclosures for; and if they're having a bad mood day, shoot a different scene that day. To me it seems like working with a snake as a belly dancer (another hobby of mine). You work around the snake's health and mood and its feeding cycle. If conditions aren't exactly right for the snake, you don't use it in your performance that night. I have absolutely no qualms with adjusting my shoot schedule around the frogs, lol.

I've also been reading up and watching videos on things like using non-chlorinated water to wash your hands with before handling the frogs, how to pick them up, etc, etc, which is something that any actor who will need to hold the frog will be trained in before interacting with the little guys. I actually will be doing a lot of night shooting, too, so I can definitely make sure that any of the frogs' scenes are all done later so I don't have to mess up their normal sleep cycles as much as possible.

I am trying to be as responsible with this project as possible, which is why I'm on here in the first place asking for any advice that anyone is willing to give. I don't want anyone to think that I'm just some jerk filmmaker who doesn't care. If I was, I would've just run off to PetSmart and bought a frog and did whatever I wanted with it.

That being said, thank you so much for the detailed information and links. I want to learn as much as possible about these guys before I even think about putting one on the set, because I have no intention of simply using them as props. They'll live with me and be my own personal companions, as well, which is a big deal for me. My pets are basically my kids, so I want to make sure they're well cared for.

Any further advice from anyone on here would be appreciated! Thanks!

What else would you like to know?

[Edisons 10K]

Reading through that care link you sent me. Noted on the handling paragraph - I hadn't thought about an actor responding to a bite by tossing the frog, lol! I'm used to reptiles and therefore have little reaction to a bite, but my actors aren't me. I'll make a note for the script to have the humans interact with the frog while it's sitting out on a solid surface, and I'll be the one moving the frog from one spot to another since it'll be used to me. I'll only have an actor handle the frog if and when I'm 100% certain that they won't freak out if it decides to be grumpy, lol. And again, anyone handling the frog will have properly washed their hands before there's any touching involved, and I'll keep it minimal.

[Edisons 10K]

What else would you like to know?

Oh, you got back to me faster than I thought, lol! Basically, from the perspective of what I'm trying to accomplish, if you were going to use a frog for a TV shoot (I know you probably wouldn't, but roll with me on this one, lol), is there anything specific you'd be doing to make sure the frog is being treated correctly while still being able to use it on set? We've established probably doing the frog's scenes in the evening, as little handling as possible is for the best, I've mentioned having multiple frogs so I can trade them out if they look like they're getting stressed out, and keeping them out of their enclosure for any longer than it takes to get the scene is a no-no. As far as feeding regimes go, would you think that the frog should have eaten recently before putting it on set? If they're anything like the snakes I mentioned above, they tend to be a lot more mellow after they eat (meaning less chances of getting bit), but you also need to give them time to digest a bit before working with them. Granted I don't intend on feeding the frog, then two seconds later pulling it out of its tank, but what would think would be a good time between feedings to potentially have the frog out of its enclosure?

[Edisons 10K]

Sorry, I'm probably going to be asking a lot of questions, lol. This one is 100% care-related, not film related:

I live in Los Angeles where the general day temperature stays between 75 and 95 any given day of the year for the most part. I do not live in an apartment that has heating or air conditioning. It looks like for the most part that I probably won't need a heating pad or anything during the day for these guys to be comfortable, but in the winter the temps can drop to as low as freezing overnight. Should I just get one of the heating pads to slap on the side of the tank like the care sheet suggested, or would a heating lamp of some sort be better for at night? I'm not sure if having a light on all night long would be a good idea... then there's the summer days when it gets really hot in here. I do have a swamp cooler for my room, which is probably perfect considering it also raises the overall humidity levels in the room, but is there anything else I should be doing to make sure the frog doesn't get too hot? it's gotten over a hundred outside several times, but in my room with the cooler on it doesn't usually get over 90.

[GrifTheGreat]

They tend to not like loud noise so you will want to keep them away from loud noise. They don't like bright lights so you will need to figure out how fo film them quickly so they are exposed to it as quick and as least as possible.

Feeding them a day before might be enough time, but sometimes they are oportunistic eaters and will always be hungry. They can be very tempermental and change mood quickly. Keeping as stress free as possible is what you will need to do. So only handle the frog as necessary and try to keep your filming rather quick. Now not all of them are flighty and aggressive. Some are just plain lazy. If you're lucky you may get a lazy one and it won't be bothered as much. Care and handling should remain the same though.

They must always be handled with wet hands. Dampend with dechlorinated water. This keeps their skin from getting irritated as much and helps not to remove their protective mucus layer. They take time to grow depending on sex and some can get pretty large. Adult size within 5 to 8 months can be common. Always handle the frog carefully and gently so it does not see you as a threat.

It may sound childish, but talking to them helps with stress. If they are accustomed to your voice they will not be as stressed. They like familiar surrounding and sounds.

I'm not sure what other advice to give during filming. Just have the frog's best interest in mind.

[huey75]

Z

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[Edisons 10K]

So I love Craigslist, lol. I picked up four tanks (3 ten gallons, 1 five gallon) with lids and in good shape for $25. Awesome. However, they look like they've probably been in the guy's garage or shed for about five years. I got all the dust and cobwebs and everything cleaned out using just plain water since everything says not to use cleaners on the tanks, but I didn't know if there was something I could use as a general disinfectant of some sort? They were previously used to house geckos and a tarantula. I'm aiming to pick up two frogs this Saturday at Repticon, so tips on that would be appreciated before then if possible. Thanks!

[GrifTheGreat]

So I love Craigslist, lol. I picked up four tanks (3 ten gallons, 1 five gallon) with lids and in good shape for $25. Awesome. However, they look like they've probably been in the guy's garage or shed for about five years. I got all the dust and cobwebs and everything cleaned out using just plain water since everything says not to use cleaners on the tanks, but I didn't know if there was something I could use as a general disinfectant of some sort? They were previously used to house geckos and a tarantula. I'm aiming to pick up two frogs this Saturday at Repticon, so tips on that would be appreciated before then if possible. Thanks!

You can use a 10% bleach to water solution to disinfect them. Just be sure to rinse them really well and dry them. Make sure no bleach fumes remain. You can also buy a great product made by Zoo Med called Wipe Out 1. You can also use white vineger which also has to be rinsed well and no odor to remain.

[Edisons 10K]

Thank you, Grif. Always so quick with the advice. I love it. Can I ask a quick question on dechlorination? Is it better to get something from the store for that, or I've seen lots of sites that say to either just leave the water out in the sun for awhile or boil it?

[GrifTheGreat]

Thank you, Grif. Always so quick with the advice. I love it. Can I ask a quick question on dechlorination? Is it better to get something from the store for that, or I've seen lots of sites that say to either just leave the water out in the sun for awhile or boil it?

Letting it set for 48 hours will allow chlorine to evaporate, BUT chlorimines do not leave the water nor do heavy metals. It is best to buy a dechlorinating agent like ReptiSafe by Zoo Med or Prime by Seachem.

[Edisons 10K]

Good news! The red light lamp hooked to the thermostat works splendidly! We held around 81 degrees all night. It dries out the humidity a little faster, but that's not that big a deal. It just means I'll have to mist down the enclosures a little more. I also got the kids some little plant things that they're enjoying sitting under. Hoorah, happy frogs!

Two things I've also learned:

A) Georgie kind of sucks at catching her own food, lol. She's very lazy. She seems to think that if she sits there and opens her mouth in the direction of the cricket that it's just going to hop right on in there. She's much better with the tong feeding, and she still doesn't seem to mind if I need to handle her a little. Hoorah for mellow frog!

B) Mason is a little machine! He goes after crickets like it's nobodies business! On the flipside, he hates being handled. I needed to move him out of his water dish so I could clean it, and he did that thing like my lizards used to do when they were first getting used to being held: "I'm going to open my mouth in anticipation of one your digits accidentally slipping in there, after which I fully intend on biting you!" He also peed on me, lol. He's definitely going to be my "look, but don't touch unless absolutely necessary" frog.

[GrifTheGreat]

Good news! The red light lamp hooked to the thermostat works splendidly! We held around 81 degrees all night. It dries out the humidity a little faster, but that's not that big a deal. It just means I'll have to mist down the enclosures a little more. I also got the kids some little plant things that they're enjoying sitting under. Hoorah, happy frogs!

Two things I've also learned:

A) Georgie kind of sucks at catching her own food, lol. She's very lazy. She seems to think that if she sits there and opens her mouth in the direction of the cricket that it's just going to hop right on in there. She's much better with the tong feeding, and she still doesn't seem to mind if I need to handle her a little. Hoorah for mellow frog!

B) Mason is a little machine! He goes after crickets like it's nobodies business! On the flipside, he hates being handled. I needed to move him out of his water dish so I could clean it, and he did that thing like my lizards used to do when they were first getting used to being held: "I'm going to open my mouth in anticipation of one your digits accidentally slipping in there, after which I fully intend on biting you!" He also peed on me, lol. He's definitely going to be my "look, but don't touch unless absolutely necessary" frog.

Just wait until he no longer waits with his mouth open, but full on lunges for your hand Lol! Oh and there isn't much room for escape either because their tongue is very sticky and it will pull them onto your hand to be bitten. No escape Lol!!

[Edisons 10K]

I think what I'll probably try to do is get one of the infrared incandescent bulbs first. Those are supposed to put out heat, but the light going off and on as the thermostat keeps the temp at a steady level isn't supposed to affect the frogs at all from what I've been reading. That way it won't irritate them or mess up their sleep cycles. I'll try that today, and if that isn't working by tonight then I'll probably try putting that small space heater on the floor near the dresser that their tanks are sitting on. With the heater pad, they've been holding steady at 72, so I only need the temp to go up ten degrees or so. I think between the pads and the bulbs that it'll probably be okay, but I'm determined to get this resolved as fast as possible. If it doesn't work, the bathroom's not a bad idea for a temporary fix. I don't have the space for them to be in there forever, but it'll work in a pinch until I construct something more permanent in my room.

[huey75]

You can boil it but the bottle you get from the pet store for dechlorantion $10 for a bottle that will last forever well $10

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[GrifTheGreat]

You can boil it but the bottle you get from the pet store for dechlorantion $10 for a bottle that will last forever well $10

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Boiling also does not remove Chlorimines or heavy metals.

[huey75]

Sorry Griff I was misinformed I was told boiling purified water I've never done it because it's so much easier to a couple drops of reptisafe

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[GrifTheGreat]

Sorry Griff I was misinformed I was told boiling purified water I've never done it because it's so much easier to a couple drops of reptisafe

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You could boil purified water. It only contains chlorine.